This last weekend I had the time to finish pulling apart the rear suspension and press in the GroupN bushings. As I was doing this I added aluminum rear lateral links to add strength and reduce weight. To make this swap work I also added Poltec hub mounted box endlinks. clicky

I am currently having an issue with the endlinks being to short and causing contact issues at full droop with my rear lateral links.

Some pics of the setup and the issue...

I'm hoping to have everything finished by next weekend. A few friends that I race with have decided to purchase our own alignment tools and scales to do our own alignments and corner weighting. We all agreed that if we're going to spend about $300/person to get this done we might as well buy the tools to do it and just do it ourselves.

 

Very nice.

 

Thanks guys!

Big Sky asked me to add some info on how I pressed in the Whiteline KCA375 Traverse bushings, so here we go...

Adam, a buddy of mine that also races in Philly Region, has at his disposal a 12 ton hydraulic press. We first tried to simply press the old bushing, which has a metal interference fit sleeve on it, out with the press. No dice. Adam then devised a plan of brilliance.

1. Drill out the center metal pivot sleeve of the bushing by drilling into the rubber area of the bushing. At this point both of us were very shocked to discover that the stock traverse link bushing is filled basically with grease. Yup that's right, this bushing is liquid filled. I'm very glad that crap is out of my car.

2. With the center metal pivot sleeve removed, we then used a Sawzall to cut into the outer metal sleeve on the bushing ONLY. DO NOT cut into the metal of bushing mount itself, you will need this part.

3. At this point with a cut into the outer metal sleeve, you can simply pull out the remaining carnage of the OE bushing.

4. Using Adam's hydraulic press, we pressed in the new bushings into the mount in the orientation instructed by Whiteline, and reinstalled the control arms with my nice new bushings.

 

Also to update, I had a very nice discussion with Poltec about my issues with my rear endlinks. I'm going to get them measurements over the weekend, and they will get me the length endlink I require. So far, I've been very pleased with their service.

 

Update on Poltec: I got Poltec a few measurements of my rear swaybar dimensions to make sure the replacement parts they send will work. They should be sending the parts out today.

Sadly I will not have my coilovers back before this weekend, so I'm going to miss our first event. It's not a points event, but I was hoping to start collection some setup data. I actually may have a weekend off from working on the car which would be quite nice.

That would be about the right time for me to head up there... humm... Keep me posted!

Will do.

 

JR, is that brace legal?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

So how was dropping the sub frame? I'm not looking forward to it...

 

JR, is that brace legal?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Mike and I both think so. He runs a similar bar.

Section 14.8 M.

Strut bars are permitted with all types of suspension. Strut bars may be mounted only transversely across the car from upper right to upper left suspension mounting point and from lower right to lower left suspension mounting point. No other configuration is permitted. Additional holes may be drilled for mounting bolts. Only bolt-on attachment is permitted. Interior trim panels may be modified to allow installation of strut bars. Holes or slots may be no larger than necessary and may serve no other purpose. This does not permit any modifications to the frame or unibody beyond the allowed mounting holes.

The bolt that the brace attaches to goes into the crossmember that the control arm attaches to. So, this brace attaches from the lower right to lower left suspension mounting point.

So how was dropping the sub frame? I'm not looking forward to it...

It actually wasn't that bad. If you're only replacing the traverse links you may not need to completely remove the subframe. There are holes to get at the bolts that attach the traverse links to the car. Mine ended up being slightly obscured.

 

Nice write up JR! Thank you

I hope your caliper survived the run in with your fore-head.. :rotfl:

 

I hope your caliper survived the run in with your fore-head.. :rotfl:

I should've taken a picture, the brake caliper has made a "T" shaped indentation in my forehead.

... but are you having fun ... as a n00b damper tuner?

I suppose you are doing OK with it as a DD?

n00b tuner is educational for sure, it just makes me feel quite dumb.

I don't have the coilovers on as I'm still screwing with the rear dampers. They are currently in Cali @ Tein getting worked on.

My Koni's with STi springs are nice for DD duty.

 

Wow. :whoa:

How does it feel now?

 

That's a very personal question.

I won't really know until I can start tuning things at events. I do expect great things from this setup.

Aren't those offset bushings basically an ALK? I thought that they were considered to alter the suspension mounting points making them ST* illegal?

Hey Tyler! Hopefully I'll get to see you out at some events this year?

These bushings are legal as they are an offset bushing that uses the OE mount.

Section 14.8 B.
Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materials (except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset bushings may be used.

 

What up JR?

Looks like you have been spending all that hard earned money....

Aren't those offset bushings basically an ALK? I thought that they were considered to alter the suspension mounting points making them ST* illegal?

Otherwise it looks like you should have a very nice setup. I'm jealous...:whoa:

 

Your initial thoughts.

Or intimate thoughts ...

 

My initial thoughts...

Well, I'm currently having some issues with my revalved rear coilovers and I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that my problems stem from two fundamental problems:

1. I'm a damper tuning n00b.
2. Tein's shock dyno is teh b0rked.

I'm basically trying to tune my dampers with no baseline and zero data points. It's simply not going to work that way. I'm also coming to conclusion that I'll be lucky if I manage to get the dampers correct sometime this season. Likely I will, but I will need a steep learning curve.

In regard to the other parts, I don't have a decent alignment on the car yet as I'm waiting for my coilovers to come back, but everything else feels quite good. The GroupN suspension bushings made a noticeable improvement.

Overall, I must withhold final judgement until I get my coilovers back in and adjusted, my race tires on, and the alignment and corner weighting finished. I still have much work to do.

 

... but are you having fun ... as a n00b damper tuner?

I suppose you are doing OK with it as a DD?

 

nice thread

OTS springs- you can post the spring rates- your among friends

yup liquid filled are the rear bushings- I was hoping you didn't have to resort to drilling and cutting

is the offset in the bushing fully rearward or full forward (I'm thinking rearward but would like to be sure)

Paul as you already have the bushings ready to go- your install will be much simpler- remove the subframe, remove the two (very high torqued) bolts, pry the end of the arm down until you can reach the rearward nut holding the bushing onto the arm-remove, put you new one on, torque the rear nut, torque the two bolts, re-install subframe

JR- that's a good idea on scales and alignment tools- you guys will recoup the costs quickly!

Did they happen to send you dynographs when they revalved them?

These are single adjustable correct? I'd suggest starting at full soft and working up (taking good notes) slowly- once you get them roughed in then you can you can fine tune front vs rear.

Mike

 

OTS springs- you can post the spring rates- your among friends

Friends can always send me a PM and ask. I think I already told you anyhow.

is the offset in the bushing fully rearward or full forward (I'm thinking rearward but would like to be sure)

The offset in the bushing moves the pivot point of the control arm away from the centerline of the car.

Did they happen to send you dynographs when they revalved them?

Tein's shock dyno is broken. :thumbdown I'm really quite a bit upset about this as this really doesn't give me any baseline to work off of.

These are single adjustable correct? I'd suggest starting at full soft and working up (taking good notes) slowly- once you get them roughed in then you can you can fine tune front vs rear.

Tein calls them a double adjustable, with combined compression & rebound adjustment, but from talking with some people that have experience with the damper, there really isn't much that changes with compression over the range. So, I'm almost thinking of them as a single adjustable damper. Again, this is all a guess as I don't have dyno plots.

 

Thanks for the better clarification.

PM responded.

I must say I am a big fan of these build threads, it makes it easier to keep our builds in mind when talking about setup!

Do you guys have any big events up your way mid summer? I've gotta go visit family!

 

Do you guys have any big events up your way mid summer? I've gotta go visit family!

I'm planning on having a big event on the weekend on Aug. 9-10th. It's our Hobert memorial. Two day event, run very much like a national event. We'll should also have a good bit of national competition as well from our Region, WDCR, & NNJR

 

thanks for the clarification

I didn't know that the mount was different than stock on the ALK. got ya.

So I am interested in the difference in caster you see whith that bushing, and also to see how that translates to feel and response in the car. Seems like a worthy mod.

I was looking to go to all group n bushings but I am going to wait till next year and hopefully redo my entire suspension

 

the ALK does three things- removes some of the anti dive/lift that the factory dialed in, increases static positive caster, provides a firmer rear bushing

the ALK mount is different than stock- thus the requirement of shimming the subframe slightly

the offset bushing accomplishes two- typically adding more caster (usually in the .5 degree range) and adding a firmer bushing

visiting w/ WL a person could orientate the bushing another 90 degrees and have some effect on anti-dive/lift, but you'd see no change in caster

JR my memory sucks- I'll send you a pm

 

JR did you have to send your coilovers back in?

 

I did send my rear dampers back to Tein. The whole process has been a little backward, but they have been very helpful. Paul over in their tech dept. so far has been fantastic.

 

that's great news! Remind me to not buy Tein in the future though...

There is the guy on NASIOC that still has those double adjustable Konis....

 

that's great news! Remind me to not buy Tein in the future though...

Well, I will say that Tein has been very helpful in this process, especially Paul in their tech dept.

I did talk to a good setup source this week and I have figured out a plan forward for my rear dampers. I should have them back this week. I'm very excited to get them on the car.

 

JR do they have a rebuild center on the east coast? I know they have one in sunny CA

 

No, everything is done in Cali. They should ship out the dampers on Monday to have them back to me by the end of the week.

Racing tomorrow!!

 

Damn, real busy couple of days...

Racing over the weekend was fun. It's so nice to be back dodging cones again. The event this weekend was very small, it's intention was to try out some new things with our program and give our volunteers some experience in different areas of our event. Small group, we got 8 runs.

I was on bald RT-615's with no alignment, a swaybar setup for for coilovers, and a bike rake on the top. I managed to be fairly fast. The car was VERY loose all day. I think this was mostly due to the cold temps and the worn down bricks I was using as tires. The car was also not very well balances with the swaybars at all.

On one of the last runs, I took the car hard into a double gate were the rear end would get loose coming out. I typically had time to check the rear end and get myself setup for a hard (130 deg.) right hander before the finish, this time I had the car cooking out of the double gate and didn't have the time to get things settled. I figured I'd just throw the car into the hard right hander and hope for the best. Well, the rear end came back around to the left and the car rotated in place around the apex of this tight corner and allowed me simply drive out of the spin with throttle. That's the way to do it.

I managed to scrape together a 4th in PAX with very limited attendance. Not too shabby with a crap setup.

 

I managed to scrape together a 4th in PAX with very limited attendance.

25

 

that's a big event for us :rotfl:

got a test/tune April 19/20- barring no snow

 

that's a big event for us :rotfl:

LOL no joke that is a HUGE event for us JR...:rotfl::sadwave:

A huge event for us is over 200. :tongue:

JR did you get your suspension yet? Again?

Not yet. Should be in this weekend I hope.

 

LOL no joke that is a HUGE event for us JR...:rotfl::sadwave:

Sounds like a good time!

 

it figures after all the crap I went through at work to get off and my kid gets sick that weekend........lol Oh well I will hopefully find a weekend to go run the wagon this summer It is going to be a busy summer so I will realistically only be able to make a few events this year.

JR did you get your suspension yet? Again?

 

Wow 200 cars... we would NEVER get 6 runs in... How long are your average run times? we're in the high 70's for the fast STX guys

 

4 runs, with run times around 55-60 sec.

 

It has been a very long time since my last update. I've been busier than a one legged cat trying to bury turds on a frozen pond recently. Getting things together for the Philly Region opener tomorrow has filled much of my time.

Also my revalved rear dampers finally showed up yesterday as with the last two bushings I've been waiting for. Last night I finished installing everything and today was spent using my corner scales and alignment tools. As an alignment tech I realize I basically suck, but every single adjustment was whacked. I managed to get the cross-weights about perfect, but I think the rear of the car may be a bit to low.

The toe wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, but my steering wheel ended up *just* a bit off. I may fix that real quick tomorrow. I will also see how the car feels and maybe play a bit more with the ride heights tomorrow night after the event.

So far though the car is absolutely amazing! The turn in is simply sick and the rear end is stable and predictable. Tomorrow during the event I will have to play with the dampers and get those dialed, but one thing at a time. I'm very excited for tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to giving the car a thorough run through. I'll try to take some pics.

 

post your corner weights when you get a chance- good luck tomorrow

 

Sorry for the late response. I learned much about my setup this weekend, mostly what excessive rear toe out will lead to. So I decided to tweak some things last night. Here's the numbers:

           LF      RF     LR       RR
Weight    1027    933     716      628
Camber   -3.3    -3.3     -1.4    -1.5
Toe       1/8     1/8     1/16     1/16

Cross%  49.9
Left%    52.7
Rear%   40.7

The toe settings are MUCH better and the cross weight feels GREAT! The left balance could be better, but the car still feels pretty damn good.

I did manage to snag a 2nd place in a car that was on insta-spin cycle and we driving like an asshat. The guy who won was Cy Lee who was in a national prepped '89 Civic Si with a Quaife. This car is quick! Setup was done by none other than Chris Shenefield, who then later that day laid down an absolutely stupid time in that same car.

I'm pretty pleased with the first time out. I need to make a few more tweaks and I think this car will ba able to lay down some pretty amazing times next weekend. I also need to work on driving this car with much more precision. This car is so much more capable than last year's setup, that I really don't need to throw the car around to get it to rotate. This car will reward proper car placement and speed control in spades.