I don't believe they swap that easily. It's something I've not seen much talk of on the new platform. Previous generations it was cheaper to sell the wrx and buy the sti.

 

It's possible, but seemingly a better option to sell the WRX and buy an STI if not only for all the other improvements and better resale.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

Hm, interesting. I bought the WRX specifically because the STI had cons I didn't want- I only really want the STI's center and front diffs, with the transmission being added peace of mind. I do wonder how much cost is hidden in labor though 😬
I think I'll call my tuner and see if he can educate me on the ins and outs of this.

 

Hm, interesting. I bought the WRX specifically because the STI had cons I didn't want- I only really want the STI's center and front diffs, with the transmission being added peace of mind. I do wonder how much cost is hidden in labor though [emoji51]
I think I'll call my tuner and see if he can educate me on the ins and outs of this.

Yeah when I priced it in the past it could run over 10k

 

What cons, in your mind?

If you are referring to the old engine design, perhaps you should wait for next years' model? This level of extreme modification is really just a money suck, particularly when you may have an opportunity to buy the exact car you've wanted soon.

 

All of what you just typed out may be remedied very soon by the next generation STI. We do not yet know the details, but I can imagine there will be a new engine platform. DI is expected, hopefully with auxiliary port injectors.

You are correct that the EJ "issues" are grossly overstated. If you look at the number of people running intakes with no tune on these forums alone, you will quickly catch my drift. The FA20F has not been around very long, but in time you will see similar complaints as the platform ages.

But EJ motor aside, that wasn't my point -- my point is that a new STI is inbound. A WRX with an STI transmission is still a WRX worth the value of a WRX. STIs WILL hold their value better if only because it's the "top tier" offering. Before dumping >$10 grand into your vehicle, wait to see what the new generation brings. It may be exactly the car you want... with a warranty.

On the topic of suspension, this is something I do not understand. Somewhere, at some point, someONE decided the STI suspension was "stiffer" than the WRX suspension. It is true that the STI gets trick monotube dampers, but the damping profiles and spring rates between the WRX and STI are nearly identical (unless you have the premium model). It may be that the additional unsprung mass of the WRX evens out some of the low-speed rebound damping giving the perception of a "less jarring ride" but having driven both cars in anger, I can't tell much difference.

 

While you wait, consider this instead:

Cusco RS Rear LSD 1.5 Way (R160) | Rallysport Direct

Upgrade the rear end in the Subaru WRX with the RS 1.5 Way rear Limited Slip Differential!

www.rallysportdirect.com

A local AutoX friend had one installed in his 2015 WRX and I had a chance to drive his car. Stock dampers, RCE Yellows, adjustable rear control arms, and that LSD -- his car ripped. I was 1.5 seconds faster in his car over my stock STI on a ~ 50 second course. It probably helped that he had Potenza RE71Rs

I understand where you are coming from -- believe me, I've been there myself many years ago when I had my WRX. Ultimately I think you will be happier by spending your hard earned $$ where it counts. Unless you plan on spending BIG money to make BIG power (and what's the point of that?), your transmission will be fine.

Speaking of tires -- what tires do you have on your car?

 

The last bullet was the only one addressing the purchase of my car against the advent of the new WRX/STI chassis (edited for clarity)- all of it applies, on top of the mentioned-but-not-properly-emphasized fact that I simply wanted to get a car, and not wait a year or two for a new chassis I only might be interested in. Impatient, yes a bit, but I've also been driving a '93 LeSabre for basically my whole life, and at 27 I was very much ready to drive something else, lol.

I also don't care about resell value because I can't imagine a scenario I'd get rid of this car. I don't plan to stay an active buyer in the car scene; if I stay in cars as a hobby, I'll be focusing on rallycross/rallysprint, primarily regarding skills [using a beater, not this car] rather than tuning/building/wanting-other-cars. But in any case, I probably wouldn't do this swap before the new chassis releases anyway- because like I said, I'm just thinking about my long-term plans for the car.

On that note, yes that WRX rear LSD is a key reason I'm posting here. If I get the peace of mind that I can do an STI trans/c-diff/f-diff swap down the line for a price that doesn't completely invalidate my original car purchase, then I can buy that rear LSD well before seriously considering the swap - knowing I'm not backing myself into a corner with purchases - and I very well may not even end up feeling any need to do the swap at all.
That's the dream: "get confidence the swap can work for me, buy the WRX rear LSD, feel satisfied and don't even need the swap" 😁

And yeah "money where it counts"- definitely begs the tire discussion! Haha. After getting a few chances to really play around with the car, I've found the stock tires seem to be hilariously bad with anything other than dry pavement- I'm definitely convinced that's the first priority currently.
I posted this thread, remember? You may not have had reason to read 100% of my gratuitous posting, but right now I'm looking at Geolandars. Still figuring this out currently...

As for the suspension...that's interesting. I make no claims to know personally - I haven't even been in an STI - but I've heard the WRX is slightly softer repeatedly...huh. Actually I just went back and checked the one source I know I would've trusted over any other during research, and indeed Engineering Explained makes that claim. Woops!

 

You seem too have a desire to sponge up information. I can respect that -- I am the same way.

RCE did some great R&D and published their results on NASIOC. There used to be shock dyno plots, but the images appear to be missing. Bummer. Maybe you can find them buried in this thread. Eat your heart out!

2015 WRX and STI suspension TECH thread. - NASIOC

2015 WRX and STI suspension TECH thread. Brakes, Steering & Suspension

forums.nasioc.com

RE: Geolanders. No, I did not read that thread in full and AT tires absolutely do not make sense for this vehicle. I'm still entirely confused by what you want your car to be? In 20 words or less.... what is your intended use of this vehicle?

 

Well, 'sponge' inaccurately implies I do it efficiently... 😉 but yes I do love to research and understand far more than necessary for my casual use case.
Thanks for the info! I'll check it out.

Me, summarize, in 20 words or less...let's see, how about this:
Small apartment, one parking spot, not rich, and literally would daily a rally car with a manual sequential.
No offense - I do appreciate all input - but I'm almost guaranteed going with these tires. I've talked to multiple people who recommended them, one person being from Primitive Racing, having run my exact prospective wheel/tire configuration, saying nothing but good things. They're also in a climate similar to mine- the PNW. My plan is one wheel/tire set for summer, and another for everything else. Plenty of people here don't even switch tires for winter because it doesn't get that bad, so there's no real way the Geolandar's tread or composition will be anything other than an improvement over stock (especially the WRX's Sport Maxx RTs) in normal driving conditions, and off-road - knowing they're A/T - I can ensure my subconscious won't be able to blame anything other than my poor driving skills for any dissatisfaction! Haha. The only real potential regret I can see would be due to the slight increase in overall tire diameter, but that's a risk I'm willing to take- the worst case scenario being a learning experience, which I welcome being new to cars.

The monotube struts provide excellent low-speed rebound damping which makes the STI undisputed king of the slalom between the two, but is probably what gave it the reputation for being "stiffer" even though the struts and springs are very similar in overall performance.

Interesting. Now I'm very curious about how they differ and would love to compare the two...
Suspension is a great big rabbit hole for sure.

 

This is the comment from RCE on the mono-tube strut:

I found that from an "all around " stand point the 2015 WRX shocks felt the best. A decent amount of damping WITHOUT the overly active mono tube feeling that some might not like about the STI at speeds below 30mph.

The 2015 STI struts with all that front low speed rebound are going to be AWESOME in transitions/slaloms for auto-x.

The monotube struts provide excellent low-speed rebound damping which makes the STI undisputed king of the slalom between the two, but is probably what gave it the reputation for being "stiffer" even though the struts and springs are very similar in overall performance.

 

Oh and I talked to my tuner and I was quite surprised to hear the best news I could reasonably imagine:
It's entirely possible for me to get the WRX rear diff, then down the road do the STI trans/c-diff/f-diff swap (something about a ring gear being based on the rear diff configuration?)- and the labor alone would only be ~$800. I've seen full STI transmissions including the rear diff under $5k, which isn't unreasonable.

 

There is simply NO WAY an AT tire will outgrip dedicated summer compound on the road. It will NOT be an improvement on road. Noise levels will be high and grip levels will be comparatively low.

There's something you and I seem to be missing here.

Just be aware of the issues that you will experience with axles/ hubs/ and driveshaft. Yes, you will need a different driveshaft since the STI 6MT is physically larger. Don't forget the conversion to linkage shifter (yours is a cable shifter), plus the cost of clutch, clutch carrier, pressure plate and correct flywheel. $800 is a great labor cost, don't get me wrong. Expert shops in the field (like Andrewtech) will most likely charge between 2 and 2.5 that number. But be assured: it is NOT as simple as throwing in a new transmission. All-in-all, factor ~$300 for the correct driveshaft, $1200 for the clutch and components. I'm not certain about the half-shafts since these may be different with the WRX 6MT compared to the 5MT, but 2x halfshafts will be around $500 not including seals and circlips. You are approaching $7500 already even with the low labor costs.

EDIT, since you seem to be doing this for the DCCD, factor in another cost for DCCD controller.

 

Well of course not on dry pavement; when I said 'normal driving conditions', I meant driving on public roads during weather events- like I said, I'll have a set for summer driving. And while Geolandars should be slightly better on wet pavement, I may actually end up replacing my stock Sport Maxx RTs [when necessary] with all-season / rain-oriented tires since Washington is always wet- then the Geolandars would be even more purpose-oriented, only coming on for a lot of snow or off-road fun. Again, I'm happy to push things to the extreme a little and have "regrets"- after all, you can't find what's 'just right' without finding what's 'too much'.

The controller is a good point I forgot I needed actually- hadn't looked into that much (seems odd to me there isn't a free solution ripping the STI's ECU logic or something, but I did notice everyone doing the swap had an aftermarket unit). But otherwise, I was under the impression most things advertised as "swaps" take into account all of that (usually including the rear diff too)- like this has everything necessary, doesn't it?

 

The DCCD controller is not integrated into the ECU, but it must communicate with the CAN.

I'm not certain what is required for DCCD controller integration on the modern WRX -- in theory the car should already have the necessary sensors for VDC, TC, and ABS: wheel speed sensors and yaw rate sensor. You should contact a shop like Andrewtech to confirm this, or the OEM like DCCDpro.

Some other small details - You will need to reflash the ECM with new logic if you want the Gear Indicator in your dash to function properly. Also, I question how well the ATV (active torque vectoring) will function. ATV may be tuned differently for the front LSD.

Surprisingly... yes, that listing seems to come with all the "necessary" components aside from a Clutch. You will also need the front Axles they have listed for $200 (each or pair?). Honestly I'm a bit surprised by the price. It seems relatively cheap. It wasn't long ago that the transmission alone would set a buyer back $5k.

Final note on the tires -- there are several summer tires that have tread blocks optimized for all-weather. You might consider this over "all season" tires since the compound is far more flexible when it comes to warm-weather tarmac duty. I have driven a VA WRX with All Season tires and a lot of the edge is lost. If you are running dedicated, seek warm-weather compound. Simple as that.

 

Also, I question how well the ATV (active torque vectoring) will function. ATV may be tuned differently for the front LSD.

Final note on the tires -- there are several summer tires that have tread blocks optimized for all-weather. You might consider this over "all season" tires since the compound is far more flexible when it comes to warm-weather tarmac duty. I have driven a VA WRX with All Season tires and a lot of the edge is lost. If you are running dedicated, seek warm-weather compound. Simple as that.

VDC's behavior has actually been so frustrating for me to clarify on. I've read everything on it in the manual, and tons of other resources, and nothing goes into any detail. There was a time I thought I finally gained enough clarification to say the torque-vectoring via braking only occurs on the front wheels, but I've since found evidence to the contrary. I was actually going to contact Subaru and see if they could give me more detail.

Thanks for the tire tip!

It would also be cheaper to swap an sti with wrx suspension than to swap a wrx with sti trans. My focus was different though, I really wanted the hydraulic steering.

WRX or STI, I'd be changing the suspension pretty heavily regardless- increased lift and travel as a minimum.
The hydraulic steering was something I actually totally forgot about though. Luckily I'm happy with the WRX's steering. Of course I imagine the STI's feels better, but ignorance is bliss! And it's just another incremental change I can do if I really want, way down the line.

Hmmmm... I don't see anything in that statement which says the STI ride was too harsh for you. I also personally disagree with your sentiment about worrying the WRX/STI is going to be too far from its roots. I feel like the WRX is already there. The old days will change when the new model comes in, in order to stay relevant. It's hard to stomach a FWD car beating up the STI on track days.

I know you disagree with Zax, but your opinion may change with the new STI. I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru will jump on board with electronically adjustable suspension modes. As far as intending on keeping the car for a long time... I remember my first beer... Having more often means wanting more, in the case of your upgrade. If you're already thinking about swapping a transmission in a nice new car, you'll have plenty of time to consider the effort and money weighed against the purchase of buying a new car when the new STI comes out. A lot can change in your mentality between your 20's and 30's. Marriage and children may come into play, whether planned now or not. Houses, unexpected life events, etc. Despite everything going very well, my priorities couldn't have changed more at 35 from how they were at 27, in a good way. (As a disclaimer, that doesn't mean I'm not immune to treating myself after making sure my house is well in order, as in my most recently started thread.)

I'm really happy with my Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires. They ride a comparable to my Stock Yokohama Advan summers, they handle very well, and they do decent enough in all weather conditions without sacrificing much performance from a summer tire. I did a lot of homework and some reputable sources compared them to being as good as 'some' summer tires. That said, they rode the rougest of the All Seasons per the reviews, but I don't notice. The road noise is fine and they also look nice. I guess something to be considered if that I've never pushed my tires close to the limits, as even when I drive spirited I do so very safely for myself and other motorists.

Regardless, at least you've given this some serious thought and are seeking information.

I mean I also think the current gen has strayed already. I agree it could go back in the right direction, but I just think it's more likely it'll stray even further, honestly. I do think the next gen will make the car more relevant, but not in a way I care for- I just expect it to have more power, maybe be even further tuned for track use. Also FWD has inherent advantages- from what I understand, some of the fastest time attack cars are FWD.

I'd be warning people of the same, but I'm kind of a veteran of diving into new hobbies and managing not to drown 😛 When the only headphones I ever used finally died, I deep-dove audio and bought $1600 CIEMs and got out while everyone told me I'd end up buying headphones forever. Though I have to say, audio is a strange hobby to lose yourself to; I don't really get the whole 'buying a million headphones for different sounds' thing- I'd prefer to listen to all music as accurately as possible and with a balanced frequency response...

Still, as mentioned, I will be seeing the new WRX/STI chassis before doing the trans/etc. swap. So we'll see how I feel about it- I mean really, I'd love for it to surprise me and make me want to trade in! Haha

And thanks for the tire input!

 

Geolanders are terrible on wet pavement.

 

Bit beyond this topic but I wanted to chime in on the comparison between wrx & sti suspension. I drove a 17 wrx for about a year then traded in on a 16 sti. The sti suspension is a bit stiffer but the difference in ride quality is not significant. I was a bit disappointed with the wrx suspension, for how it felt in the seat the handling didn't seem much better than my grandparents Honda accord of the same year. The sti has better handling & has a bit of that bounce feeling but it's not harsh at all. Even when I had swapped cars with my mom for a week while moving she complained about the exhaust, complained that the car was trying to kill her but actually commented that it didn't ride rough.

It would also be cheaper to swap an sti with wrx suspension than to swap a wrx with sti trans. My focus was different though, I really wanted the hydraulic steering.

 

Small apartment, one parking spot, not rich, and literally would daily a rally car with a manual sequential.

Hmmmm... I don't see anything in that statement which says the STI ride was too harsh for you. I also personally disagree with your sentiment about worrying the WRX/STI is going to be too far from its roots. I feel like the WRX is already there. The old days will change when the new model comes in, in order to stay relevant. It's hard to stomach a FWD car beating up the STI on track days.

I know you disagree with Zax, but your opinion may change with the new STI. I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru will jump on board with electronically adjustable suspension modes. As far as intending on keeping the car for a long time... I remember my first beer... Having more often means wanting more, in the case of your upgrade. If you're already thinking about swapping a transmission in a nice new car, you'll have plenty of time to consider the effort and money weighed against the purchase of buying a new car when the new STI comes out. A lot can change in your mentality between your 20's and 30's. Marriage and children may come into play, whether planned now or not. Houses, unexpected life events, etc. Despite everything going very well, my priorities couldn't have changed more at 35 from how they were at 27, in a good way. (As a disclaimer, that doesn't mean I'm not immune to treating myself after making sure my house is well in order, as in my most recently started thread.)

I may actually end up replacing my stock Sport Maxx RTs [when necessary] with all-season / rain-oriented tires since Washington is always wet- then the Geolandars would be even more purpose-oriented, only coming on for a lot of snow or off-road fun.

I'm really happy with my Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires. They ride a comparable to my Stock Yokohama Advan summers, they handle very well, and they do decent enough in all weather conditions without sacrificing much performance from a summer tire. I did a lot of homework and some reputable sources compared them to being as good as 'some' summer tires. That said, they rode the rougest of the All Seasons per the reviews, but I don't notice. The road noise is fine and they also look nice. I guess something to be considered if that I've never pushed my tires close to the limits, as even when I drive spirited I do so very safely for myself and other motorists.

Regardless, at least you've given this some serious thought and are seeking information.

 

Hmmmm... I don't see anything in that statement which says the STI ride was too harsh for you.

Forgot to respond on stiffness:
I was originally under the impression the stock WRX suspension was generally stiffer than you'd want for most rally builds; I became further convinced of this when enjoying some gravel mountain roads, where I hit some potholes so hard I had to get out and check to see if my wheels were destroyed...😬 haha.
However I started doing research, and found that even rally-specific suspension parts for my car advertise themselves as being stiffer...very confusing to me (though I do understand my 18in wheels are part of the problem).
I brought this to a rallycross group and I'm getting some seemingly contradictory information. Seems I really need to dive deeper into suspension to get a grasp on what I want to change about the stock setup, if anything [aside from lifting]...

Still with all else you will do it would probably be cheaper to start with an sti. I also don't know if it's possible to swap the sti hydraulic steering into a wrx.

It might be close, but if I went with an STI, I'd either be swapping to the FA, or I'd have to worry about how the previous owner treated the engine (NEEDED Cool Khaki Gray, lol, got super lucky and found a WRX with only 1k miles, was already paranoid buying that) and would be swapping the headers and turbo to equal-length and twin-scroll (not even sure that's a thing, but it's what I'd need to do to get the WRX/STI that I want)- which would be a lot, potentially including labor for work I wouldn't be able to handle alone like I did for all my current mods.

If swapping to hydraulic isn't an option, I'll just have to ensure I remain ignorant and never try hydraulic steering to ensure I don't know what I'm missing 😛 honestly, I'd probably be more interested in doing something stupid like actually converting to manual sequential before then anyway, lol.

 

ELH, AOS, an aftermarket top mount intercooler and you'd be plenty safe. The majority of EJ motor failures are from uneducated and/or irresponsible drivers. But yeah... I don't blame you for not wanting to go that route.

 

The FA motor will be there in due time.

I am constantly humbled by amount of dumbfuckery in the automotive community.

 

I'm not, it's an automotive right of passage to see absolute absurdity, be told absolute absurdity, and believe absolute absurdity at one time or another in your life.

I had a guy telling me his non turbo bubble eclipse was faster than a viper to 60. He had the time slips to prove it. It was his 60' rollout time. He heard none of it, it was absolutely faster.

At the end of the day all you can do is read laugh and hope their brain vtec kicks in

 

Yeah the WRX/STI Owners Facebook page is...truly a sight to behold...
The demographic destroying buying these cars is why I was so scared to buy used, and why I still got a PPI before committing to a WRX with 1k miles and a CPO warranty from a 5-star dealership, lol.

 

It seems like everyone with an import who corners you about your car always ends up making an assumption about your car or their own car that's dead wrong and lacking of any basic automotive knowledge. I'm sure it has something to do with attracting the younger market. It's a drawback to liking cars which high schoolers are drawn to. I get a lot of looks and comments, but they're usually from people fifteen years younger than me who assume my car is much faster than it is. "My dream car is to own a twin turbo STI." I got that the other day.

 

That's interesting. Nobody ever says anything about my sti (except ridicule from a douche in a Porsche once) but my 93 Toyota pickup I get non stop compliments.

 

My dream car is a free taxi. If I ever have to drive myself somewhere again it’ll be too soon.