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Yes. The motor can wake up. It seems like a great motor. But, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm a driving feel guy, not a speed guy. You can make this car a bullet in a straight line, but that will never make up for the solid planted feel from the steering wheel, transmission, differentials, brakes, suspension, etc. I don't launch, and toe to toe with the STI from a roll they are about even. But, that's not what does it for me.

The rack is numb, the gear box is sloppy (even with STS), the motor sounds lifeless, the ride is cushy. From a daily driving standpoint, those are ideal for me. From a 'something special' standpoint, it's quite a compromise.

I started my VB last night in a parking lot. After that, a GR started a few rows over. My pee pee shrank.

The VB is a "good" car. But, that's mostly what it is to me. A "good" car. It's less unique. It's less special. It's just fun and 'ok.' It's exactly what I needed in this point in my life, but it doesn't particularly excite me.
Surprising. I'm not a straight line speed guy either. My particular WRX...even on stock suspension...handles so well that I can't break it loose on the street....and I've hauled some serious ass in this car and not even got so much as a tire squeal. Of course, the tradeoff is that it rides like a hay wagon. I've got a set of Cygnus Performance "Comfort" coilovers ready to put on. I expect they will fix the ride quality issue while still maintaining the handling. I have years of track experience on motorcycles, so I know that a properly set up suspension can be both compliant and handle well. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. The steering is very sharp and it's quick lock to lock. It's a blast in the twisties. The only thing I think I'd like to change on the steering is better on center feel. It's so sharp that the least little input and you're changing lanes. When I get the coilovers installed, they have more positive caster that should fix that issue.

It's almost as if we are driving two different cars. My ride is not cushy AT ALL. It's bone jarring and "bouncy". Hence, the coilover purchase. The shifter is adequate. It's not as good as a Honda or Porsche shifter....or a Mazda for that matter...but it's not notchy like most VW's. As far as the exhaust note is concerned...my wife hates riding in the car when I start it cold. She said the sound "is too loud and hurts her ears". That's on the stock exhaust. Cold starts are sort of loud. Hard to slip out of the garage when I have to leave early in the morning. I am pleased with the stock exhaust and I like the sound the engine makes. Sounds better than most 4 bangers but obviously not as good as a V8.

The chassis is outstanding. Surprisingly stiff. The engine has GOBS of potential. It's super easy to work on. I can't think of another $30k car that can touch it (I have the base model). I test drove the Civic Si and it was absolutely gutless compared to even the stock WRX. It was much nicer on the inside than my base model WRX. But the dealer had a $5000 "market adjustment" on the Civic and I told him to pound sand.
 
The EJ (and older turbocharged engines in general) have a character that some of us have grown to love -- that brutal torque shelf as the turbocharger comes onto boost. You know the characteristic... the engine will literally gain about 50% torque in only a few hundred RPMs.

The STI has the "shove" feeling as a result. It's not necessarily faster, but it often feels faster to the driver.
 
Surprising. I'm not a straight line speed guy either. My particular WRX...even on stock suspension...handles so well that I can't break it loose on the street....and I've hauled some serious ass in this car and not even got so much as a tire squeal. Of course, the tradeoff is that it rides like a hay wagon. I've got a set of Cygnus Performance "Comfort" coilovers ready to put on. I expect they will fix the ride quality issue while still maintaining the handling. I have years of track experience on motorcycles, so I know that a properly set up suspension can be both compliant and handle well. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. The steering is very sharp and it's quick lock to lock. It's a blast in the twisties. The only thing I think I'd like to change on the steering is better on center feel. It's so sharp that the least little input and you're changing lanes. When I get the coilovers installed, they have more positive caster that should fix that issue.

It's almost as if we are driving two different cars. My ride is not cushy AT ALL. It's bone jarring and "bouncy". Hence, the coilover purchase. The shifter is adequate. It's not as good as a Honda or Porsche shifter....or a Mazda for that matter...but it's not notchy like most VW's. As far as the exhaust note is concerned...my wife hates riding in the car when I start it cold. She said the sound "is too loud and hurts her ears". That's on the stock exhaust. Cold starts are sort of loud. Hard to slip out of the garage when I have to leave early in the morning. I am pleased with the stock exhaust and I like the sound the engine makes. Sounds better than most 4 bangers but obviously not as good as a V8.

The chassis is outstanding. Surprisingly stiff. The engine has GOBS of potential. It's super easy to work on. I can't think of another $30k car that can touch it (I have the base model). I test drove the Civic Si and it was absolutely gutless compared to even the stock WRX. It was much nicer on the inside than my base model WRX. But the dealer had a $5000 "market adjustment" on the Civic and I told him to pound sand.
Not trying to be a dick here - have you driven a late model STI?

My writeup when I bought my 2015 STI in 2014:

Cornering/Handling:
Pulling out of the parking lot, it was immediately evident the car had been completely overhauled. Gone was the numb and sloppy feeling of the GRs. Yet, despite the lack of sloppiness, the 2015 does not retain the jarring ride of the GD WRX STi. If there is one word I would use to describe the 2015 WRX STi, that word would be "tight." The steering is tight and responsive, the chassis rigid as can be. Literally everything about the car is tighter and more composed than the last generation STi. What is most interesting to me is that Subaru has managed to keep the best of both the GD and GR chassis while eliminating the pitfalls. The 2015 STi rides smoothly but does not have the spongy feeling that plagued the GR STi. In short, the 2015 STi reminds me of a GR STi with all conceivable driveline and suspension bushings upgraded. If I were to compare the 2015 STi with the Evo X, I would say that the cornering is very close. It is difficult to make the judgement because I have not driven either car in anger, but the 2015 is impressive. Compared to the WRX, the STi feels a bit more planted, but honestly it's very close. I drove the 2015 WRX back-to-back with the 2015 STi and the WRX is an impressive performer. The steering in the WRX is very good, especially considering the rack is EPAS, though it doesn't quite topple the STi in precision. In the cornering department, the WRX is incredible. When compared to the GR STi, the new 2015 WRX feels FAR more planted. During the test drive, I was able to drive both cars over an off-camber corner with a rough patch of pavement. The WRX was a little unsettled over the rough patch (but maintained traction) while the STi remained completely composed. It is evident that though the electronic traction control does its job adequately, it just can't beat out the true limited slip differentials in the STi. Both very impressive performers; points to Subaru here.
(95) Zax's 2015 WRX STi BS build thread | Subaru WRX Forum (clubwrx.net)

I have not driven a VB WRX, but from what I've gathered the cornering performance is quite similar to the VA WRX which is to say, quite good. Given my own experience above, I can understand why @ProZach626 misses the planted feeling of his last STI.

If I were on the market today, It'd be between the GR Corolla and the Golf R. I suspect that the Golf R is the better overall buy, but the GR Corolla feels way more special to me.
 
The EJ (and older turbocharged engines in general) have a character that some of us have grown to love -- that brutal torque shelf as the turbocharger comes onto boost.
As someone who started driving in the 80's, I have a lot of fond memories of those old turbo cars that hit like a ton of bricks. When I was 16yo my Conquest TSi sent me over a 15ft embankment after the turbo kicked in while I was powering out of a curve. Back end said "bye bye" and I went end first over the embankment. I was 16 and through I was Mario Andretti...I was wrong. :)

Nothing like that nothing...nothing...nothing.....EVERYTHING feeling. LOL!
 
As someone who started driving in the 80's, I have a lot of fond memories of those old turbo cars that hit like a ton of bricks. When I was 16yo my Conquest TSi sent me over a 15ft embankment after the turbo kicked in while I was powering out of a curve. Back end said "bye bye" and I went end first over the embankment. I was 16 and through I was Mario Andretti...I was wrong. :)

Nothing like that nothing...nothing...nothing.....EVERYTHING feeling. LOL!
It's exciting when you want it to be, but can certainly be a chore 90% of the rest of the drive. The STI requires a lot of work to keep the car on boil. It's rewarding to drive fast but not easy.
 
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If I were on the market today, It'd be between the GR Corolla and the Golf R. I suspect that the Golf R is the better overall buy, but the GR Corolla feels way more special to me.
I had a set budget. The GR Corolla and the Golf R were both considerably out of my budget as was the Type R....and that is if you could actually find one and purchase it for MSRP. Even the Elantra N was difficult to find. There was only one available in my area and it sold the day I looked at it. But it was a bit over my budget too.

The only three new cars that were in my budget were the GTI, Civic Si, and the WRX. Out of those three...the WRX is the clear winner.
 
I'm not in the market because my car is only 9 years young.

However I did recently learn a dangerous fact... that I can configure the Corolla GR Core WITH LSDs for less than $40k.

Dealer markups are another thing entirely.
 
Dealer markups are another thing entirely.
Yes! And right now they are crazy.

When Honda dealers want $5000 over MSRP for a Civic Si that's ignorant....but when they want $10k over MSRP for a Civic Type R....that's insane.

If I'm spending that much money I'm just going to go for nice used Corvette or Porsche some old man bought and parked in the garage. $50k for a Civic or Corolla...big nope. Don't care how fast it is.
 
If I'm spending that much money I'm just going to go for nice used Corvette or Porsche some old man bought and parked in the garage. $50k for a Civic or Corolla...big nope. Don't care how fast it is.
Hey wait ... I resemble that remark (ZL1).
 
Discussion starter · #92 · (Edited)
Surprising. I'm not a straight line speed guy either. My particular WRX...even on stock suspension...handles so well that I can't break it loose on the street....and I've hauled some serious ass in this car and not even got so much as a tire squeal. Of course, the tradeoff is that it rides like a hay wagon. I've got a set of Cygnus Performance "Comfort" coilovers ready to put on. I expect they will fix the ride quality issue while still maintaining the handling. I have years of track experience on motorcycles, so I know that a properly set up suspension can be both compliant and handle well. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. The steering is very sharp and it's quick lock to lock. It's a blast in the twisties. The only thing I think I'd like to change on the steering is better on center feel. It's so sharp that the least little input and you're changing lanes. When I get the coilovers installed, they have more positive caster that should fix that issue.

It's almost as if we are driving two different cars. My ride is not cushy AT ALL. It's bone jarring and "bouncy". Hence, the coilover purchase. The shifter is adequate. It's not as good as a Honda or Porsche shifter....or a Mazda for that matter...but it's not notchy like most VW's. As far as the exhaust note is concerned...my wife hates riding in the car when I start it cold. She said the sound "is too loud and hurts her ears". That's on the stock exhaust. Cold starts are sort of loud. Hard to slip out of the garage when I have to leave early in the morning. I am pleased with the stock exhaust and I like the sound the engine makes. Sounds better than most 4 bangers but obviously not as good as a V8.

The chassis is outstanding. Surprisingly stiff. The engine has GOBS of potential. It's super easy to work on. I can't think of another $30k car that can touch it (I have the base model). I test drove the Civic Si and it was absolutely gutless compared to even the stock WRX. It was much nicer on the inside than my base model WRX. But the dealer had a $5000 "market adjustment" on the Civic and I told him to pound sand.
Yeah man, I get it. I even understand what you're saying. The VB is a good car, but the point of the thread is a comparison between the VB and VA STI. I think something got lost in translation at some point.

To put it in a nutshell, I will say that my VB WRX has far less character than my STI. It's a good car. It does everything well. It just doesn't excite me or feel nearly as much like a racecar. The feel is what this car lacks in comparison to the STI. This is stock for stock, which is all I'm interested in. I paid $40,000, so I want a worry free warranty. I wanted the bells and whistles. But mostly, I wanted the seats and the HK stereo.

If I didn't commute, I would have waited it out a long time for the right chance at a Type R. I would have paid $50,000'ish, so I would imagine my wait would be years long. I couldn't get past the look of the GR Corolla and the unavailability of the Circuit Edition. But, driving the STI on the highway, even for 30 minutes, was not enjoyable. Adding to that is both of my STI's had mysterious unresolved alignment issues, which was mostly only noticeable on highway drives. It was to the point where SOA gave me a $4,000 credit if I wanted to get rid of my original 2015 WRX STI for another Subaru. I took them up on that offer and bought a 2018 Recaro package STI, which developed similar, but less severe issues. Dealing with it the first time was such a frustrating and lost cause that I chose to just live with it.

There's a book of a thread documenting it. It was rare enough where the identical unresolved issue happened to a very small handful of other owners and apparently lightning struck twice with me. I digress...

It's exciting when you want it to be, but can certainly be a chore 90% of the rest of the drive.
Yes. Spot on. The three 5:00 AM on-ramps during my commute were great. And then... there was the rest of the drive. It consisted of bumps, rattles, a trash stereo, and constant wheel tugging.
 
Fun thread to read through! It reminds me a lot of how I felt when I bought my 2020 WRX; my first Subaru, coming from 20 years of tuning Hondas, but always appreciating the WRX (STi) from a distance.

In my heart, I really wanted an STi, but I couldn't see past it being a somewhat poor financial decision -- costing at least $5000 more than the WRX spec I had in mind, and the fuel economy would've been a constant sore spot for years to come. I had similar reservations about the wing, also being in my mid-30s at the time of purchase. After a few months of hunting around for what I wanted, the local dealership just happened to have one delivered; a white performance package WRX. I decided it was fate and went for it. I went in and took it that night, before it spent a single day in the sun on their lot.

Do I regret it? Yes and no... but mostly, yes. In retrospect, my timing was golden, as September 2020 was right about the last opportunity to buy a car before the market went to total shit, and I was able to get a solid deal. However, I've since spent that saved $5000+ in supporting mods to get the car to feel/handle more like the STi I test drove, but with a lot less character (outside of the somewhat aggressive styling, which I still love.) The gearbox feels unsatisfactory in comparison, and is a far cry from Honda's excellence. The FA engine sounds like farm equipment. And with the STi as we know it being killed off, it made me even more regretful.
 
Discussion starter · #95 ·
Not trying to make you have further regrets, but honestly $5,000 is such a small price to pay for the difference. The major saving grace is you got the performance package. I really wished they offered something like that for the VB. Bigger brakes and Bilstein struts.

As far as the wing goes, I did a trunk swap on my 18 and loved it without the wing. I met half way in between STL and Chicago with a 2017 WRX at a body shop and they did the swap with the torsion bars for like $250. A lot of people would have done the swap their selves, but I didn't want to be stuck in a Walmart parking lot and finding out I couldn't get the torsion bars off.
 
One of these days I will too. When I'm tool old and feeble to get in and out of it, so I just sit in the garage and stare at it.
Well, I found the ZL1 wouldn't work as my retirement car. In 2020 I did an iron butt from Knoxville to Acadiana. I was some stove up. MRC or not, Recaro seats - whatever. 1:58.9 at NOLA Motorsports Park - didn't matter. 11.88 at 128MPH at 103 degrees - who cares. 202 MPH top speed - Nope not enough.

$h!t happens and I changed cars.

To be fair, you are an old man. Is your ZL1 parked in a garage?
Zax, it was. It was replaced by a red car (C43). Actually, the ZL1 was replaced by a blue car (CLS450). The white CLA45 turned into a red car. The MKT has been there through all of these changes. 2 petrol heads under the same roof. My SO has great taste in all things (well, except me).
 
Not trying to make you have further regrets, but honestly $5,000 is such a small price to pay for the difference. The major saving grace is you got the performance package. I really wished they offered something like that for the VB. Bigger brakes and Bilstein struts.

As far as the wing goes, I did a trunk swap on my 18 and loved it without the wing. I met half way in between STL and Chicago with a 2017 WRX at a body shop and they did the swap with the torsion bars for like $250. A lot of people would have done the swap their selves, but I didn't want to be stuck in a Walmart parking lot and finding out I couldn't get the torsion bars off.
I agree that the VB out of the box definitely doesn't have as much character as the STI and probably never will but there are a handful of inexpensive mods that would definitely at least bridge the gap half way there if not a little more. Steering Dampener Lockdown (this takes out the first half inch or more of play in the steering and really tightens it up) Group N Transmission Mount, Pitch Stop Mount, Rear Diff inserts and Whiteline shift kit (this will get rid of all the transmission play, the jerkiness in 1, 2, the jerkiness while downshifting, makes it a lot more connective) Shifter plate, shift busing, and shift stop (This will transform the gearbox, in my opinion to something better then the new type R)

If you go with a more solid pitch stop it will bring a lot more engine noise in the cabin, I personally love it. If you want to stay more oem you could get both the group N mount and group N pitch stop made by Subaru themselves. For the shift plats cobbs actually fits under the protection plate, however it is a little lighter then the others.

I also ordered a rear sway bar I am about the put on this weekend to tighten up the back just a little bit.

I was on the fence, I wanted to trade my 2022 for a 2021 sti but after the mods I mentioned I am happy with it. Plus the stories of blown ej's sketches me out and the price plus used rates are just a poor financial decision. At current prices I would fork over some more money and go strait for an M2.

Hope some of that helps.
 
Discussion starter · #98 ·
I'm sure those things will make a difference, but then that's going to chip away at what makes it a good daily driver. I'm not trying to say I want to turn it into the STI. It's just a comparison between the two.

The steering is pretty responsive as it is. The gripe from most critics is the last of feedback. The STI was hydraulic.
 
There's more to feedback than hydraulic vs. electric. A good EPAS can be better than most hydraulics, case in point EPAS on mx5, type R & most porsches.

The big issue with wrx feedback is rubber & brackets. S4 steering brackets for rack, poly bushings on front control arms and the STi u-joint on steering rack (solid) instead of wrx (rubber damped) will get you steering feel on par with and possible better than STi.
 
Discussion starter · #100 · (Edited)
At what cost? Or else, why wasn't it done from the factory?

I'll mod this car and then post another review, guys. Clearly the idea of a stock for stock comparison is uncomprehensible. All I hear from people is advice on which parts of the warranty to void to make the car up to snuff with the STI, or other competition. Just a few thousand dollars more to spend, and a couple dozen man hours to somehow manifest from a busy schedule.

Tune, tires, brakes, suspension components, wheels, shifter bushings, steering wheel bushings, engine mounts, Recaro seats for relevance to my old car, an exhaust... How about maybe a big wing and neon brake caliper covers to complete the look? What am I missing? Will someone just make me a parts list, please?
 
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