[zax]

Also, before I get down from this soapbox...

I detest the "high-stress" vs. "low-stress" argument for a state of tune. There's so much more to components that are under stress and whether the materials are engineered to withstand those stresses. I typically hear this applied against lumpy American V8s from the early 90s as being "low stress" because they have a low specific output and don't rev very high. OK sure, but they have long strokes, cast crankshafts, long pushrod valve-actuation, poor intake runner design, and poor VE. The materials are under just as much stress modulus as a high-revving Honda engine of the same vintage and yet the Hondas were much more reliable.

 

[XJman]

Also, before I get down from this soapbox...

I detest the "high-stress" vs. "low-stress" argument for a state of tune. There's so much more to components that are under stress and whether the materials are engineered to withstand those stresses. I typically hear this applied against lumpy American V8s from the early 90s as being "low stress" because they have a low specific output and don't rev very high. OK sure, but they have long strokes, cast crankshafts, long pushrod valve-actuation, poor intake runner design, and poor VE. The materials are under just as much stress modulus as a high-revving Honda engine of the same vintage and yet the Hondas were much more reliable.

I will stand on the soap box in front of you and stand my ground with specific output being a player in reliability.

I vaguely remember arguments about the wankel being an orbital piston vs rotary. Rotary is when the block spins around the core. Either way, directly injecting your lubrication into the combustion chamber is stupid.

 

[silver_scooby]

It's worth mentioning that, while Mazda popularized the Wankel engine, it wasn't the first manufacturer to use a Wankel in a production vehicle.

We should also be clear in distinguishing Wankel from other types of Rotary engines.

It's no doubt that Mazda has been pretty pioneering for such a small automaker, but that little nitpick has always bugged me.

True, it's a 20s invention and most companies were making prototypes. Impressive part is that tiny Mazda made it work & made it an exciting sports car engine where GM & Merc's giant budgets failed.

Yeah wankel gets called rotary because that's the only rotary engine sold in substantial numbers. Radial & turbine engines never sold in mainstream numbers.

I will stand on the soap box in front of you and stand my ground with specific output being a player in reliability.

I vaguely remember arguments about the wankel being an orbital piston vs rotary. Rotary is when the block spins around the core. Either way, directly injecting your lubrication into the combustion chamber is stupid.

I agree with zax on this. High/low stress is the ratio of actual stress in operation to fatigue limit of each component. Specific output definitely affects reliability when you compare different outputs on the same engine. But the design & quality differences between engines will have a bigger effect on reliability.

Injecting lubrication is a great idea. Without emissions regs, everyone would do that & triple piston ring life.

 

[zax]

And the engine in the Toyota does indeed incorporate piston oil jets compared to the Subaru lacking in this department.

 

[XJman]

And the engine in the Toyota does indeed incorporate piston oil jets compared to the Subaru lacking in this department.

That's irrelevant outside of the ej as far as I'm aware the fa engines all have squirters.

And no, injecting oil into the combustion chamber would be avoided.

 

[zax]

That's irrelevant outside of the ej as far as I'm aware the fa engines all have squirters.

And no, injecting oil into the combustion chamber would be avoided.

FA does not incorporate piston oil squirters.

Both EJ and FA have relied on notched rods on the big-end and windage to provide lubrication to the cylinder bores. One could argue that oil squirters are less necessary than an I4 because of the cylinder arrangement, but you definitely lose some cooling capacity without directing oil to the bottom of the piston crown.

 

[zax]

 

[XJman]

I'll be darned. I could have sworn they added them to the fa platform.

 

[zax]

No, which is why I'm saying that the design of the engine is a more important indicator of longevity vs. only cylinder pressure.

Piston oil squirters keep the piston crown temperatures more controlled allowing 1. reduced propensity for knock and 2. the manufacturer to choose a more ductile piston material while still conforming to emissions regulations. That's a win-win: more knock resistance AND better survivability when knock does occur (which it will). You could (and should) argue that knock is more likely to occur in the much higher cylinder pressures of the Toyota 3-cyl, but given the differences described above, the end result may not be less survivability nor reliability.

Direct injection helps both with knock resistance, but the Toyota uses port and direct injectors (D4-S) reducing the effects of carbon buildup.

These are just several things that indicate to me the Toyota motor will be more reliable, but that's crystal-ball shit. We don't know the common failure modes on either car just yet. The RTV issues in the FA24 are pretty damning right now.

 

[Jbravo_AK]

Numbers can be deceiving (its all about traction). Theres also alot of variables to reliable like how its driven, the owners attention to service, fuel used, ect. With newer vehicles coming out its hard to tell. If it was me choosing i'd pick the GR Corolla but just as a DD fun around town car. I wouldn't expect it to win any track days or impress my friends.

 

[ProZach626]

I feel like you're looking for gratification for your purchase. You did fine. Stop looking at other women and wondering if you could have done better.

 

[Marmaduke]

I feel like you're looking for gratification for your purchase. You did fine. Stop looking at other women and wondering if you could have done better.

Haven’t picked up the car or put a penny down. Going to value my Giulia tomorrow though and will trade it in if they can make it work. Otherwise my lease ends April 4 so I’ll grab it at the end of the month. ☺ Confirmation bias is great, sure; but curious on the community’s opinion with Toyota basically building the hatchback STI the world wanted. I didn’t even realize it was a 3 cyl until I posted the thread because it took me off guard and made me wonder about reliability… No replacement for displacement right? Figured it’d be an interesting discussion and has proven to be. I’ve learned some stuff from it.👍

 

[CaTiRo79]

Well since we went down that rabbit hole … what about the Type R? 🙂

I think real world after mark ups the GR Corolla and Type R will be priced similar.

 

[silver_scooby]

Well since we went down that rabbit hole … what about the Type R? 🙂

I think real world after mark ups the GR Corolla and Type R will be priced similar.

Type R will be more hardcore, more reliable and will have better handling on dry tracks. WRX will be a better daily and much better grip and handling on snow, wet roads, mountain roads, etc. Also the red seats are an acquired taste. If the upcoming Integra Type S has muted styling and more sound deadening/adaptive dampers, it may be a fantastic option.

 

[Camaromjr]

I will offer that an integral part of engine longevity is ownership. While being studious about driving habits, maintenance and general care does not guarantee longevity, it is an influencer. Cars are far more reliable today (period). Good habits can help ensure more trouble free miles. These miles can even contain high stress track miles, as long as the vehicle is built for track use and you follow the maintenance religiously. Abuse a Honda, Toyota or Subbie while neglecting proper care can have disastrous effects. $800 oil changes on a 4 pot engine is just part of the cost of ownership (AMG).

No amount of care could make that Colin Chapman, monkey motion, Big Valve, machine reliable (more to do with the electrics). The same was true of the 3.5-liter V8 in that wedge shaped vehicle (same electrical issues).

 

[Marmaduke]

I will offer that an integral part of engine longevity is ownership. While being studious about driving habits, maintenance and general care does not guarantee longevity, it is an influencer. Cars are far more reliable today (period). Good habits can help ensure more trouble free miles. These miles can even contain high stress track miles, as long as the vehicle is built for track use and you follow the maintenance religiously. Abuse a Honda, Toyota or Subbie while neglecting proper care can have disastrous effects. $800 oil changes on a 4 pot engine is just part of the cost of ownership (AMG).

No amount of care could make that Colin Chapman, monkey motion, Big Valve, machine reliable (more to do with the electrics). The same was true of the 3.5-liter V8 in that wedge shaped vehicle (same electrical issues).

I dunno man. Have a friend who drove a Lexus sedan for years. Put over 300k miles on it, and didn’t change the oil for the last 100k of use. He more than got his money out of the car at that point and I honestly think began to enjoy abusing it.

But on a whole I agree. I follow my maintenance schedules pretty tight.

 

[silver_scooby]

I dunno man. Have a friend who drove a Lexus sedan for years. Put over 300k miles on it, and didn’t change the oil for the last 100k of use. He more than got his money out of the car at that point and I honestly think began to enjoy abusing it.

But on a whole I agree. I follow my maintenance schedules pretty tight.

Toyota's low specific output engines are genuinely understressed and will tolerate some insane abuse.

Back to the point, since we are talking about model specific reliability for OP, we have to assume that OP's driving and maintenance habits will be the same for either car.

 

[Marmaduke]

Toyota's low specific output engines are genuinely understressed and will tolerate some insane abuse.

Back to the point, since we are talking about model specific reliability for OP, we have to assume that OP's driving and maintenance habits will be the same for either car.

I am OP, and yes… this is an apples to apples comparison (as much as possible). Otherwise what’s the point?

 

[zax]

I will offer that an integral part of engine longevity is ownership. While being studious about driving habits, maintenance and general care does not guarantee longevity, it is an influencer. Cars are far more reliable today (period). Good habits can help ensure more trouble free miles. These miles can even contain high stress track miles, as long as the vehicle is built for track use and you follow the maintenance religiously. Abuse a Honda, Toyota or Subbie while neglecting proper care can have disastrous effects. $800 oil changes on a 4 pot engine is just part of the cost of ownership (AMG).

No amount of care could make that Colin Chapman, monkey motion, Big Valve, machine reliable (more to do with the electrics). The same was true of the 3.5-liter V8 in that wedge shaped vehicle (same electrical issues).

Couldn't (and didn't) have said it better myself.

 

[ProZach626]

but curious on the community’s opinion with Toyota basically building the hatchback STI the world wanted.

I've been around long enough to know all the Subaru community would do is bitch about the car not having more power.