I'm glad you like the 2.0 better since that is your engine. I on the other hand, have wished for a 2.5T, but I don't have the money. You will eventually succomb to the (approx) 153ci turbo. The reason why we get it don't matter to me. I'm just happy to have it available.

 

I still say:

(91 octane)+(3 cats)+(American love of HP)+(beat Evo VII)= 2.5L

Isn't this obvious?

 

Shadow,

Sorry if this seems like a flame..

Are you dotard?

The 2.5 will provide more torque, more HP. The US market doesn't choose to purchase the WRX or the new STI to go rally with it, they purchase it to drive. Your position is weak considering that the majority of WRX owners have been longing for more cc's, I personaly would love to see the H-6 dropped in and either supercharged or turbocharged. And considering past Subaru quality and reliabality, the 2.5 is going to be a "tank".

If you are adamant on the 2.0, keep the WRX, and you will see the difference when I come around with my 04' STI.

 

Shadow,

Sorry if this seems like a flame..

Are you dotard?

The 2.5 will provide more torque, more HP. The US market doesn't choose to purchase the WRX or the new STI to go rally with it, they purchase it to drive. Your position is weak considering that the majority of WRX owners have been longing for more cc's, I personaly would love to see the H-6 dropped in and either supercharged or turbocharged. And considering past Subaru quality and reliabality, the 2.5 is going to be a "tank".

If you are adamant on the 2.0, keep the WRX, and you will see the difference when I come around with my 04' STI.

take it easy. flame or not, you can certainly find a way to express your opinion w/o calling someone a dotard. this isn't a sand box, and i'm not your kindergarten teacher. so i don't expect to have to post this again.

dR

 

Its true that WRC cars are limited to 2.0L and 300hp through an intake restrictor, but the majority of american consumer can care less for WRC. Hell, even in SCCA Prorally, there is an Open Class where cars are tuned to the edge making the most of the small EJ20 or even boring it out to 2.2+. So SOA made a great marketing decision to increase it to 2.5L to not only pass emissions, but to deliver exactly what consumers wanted: more power and more low spectrum torque. I also can't wait for them to drop a 3.0L H6 twin turbo into the legacy so that I can make that my second car purchase

chris

 

Dark_Rex,

Once again, wasen't instigating a fight, but I was amazed - no shocked, that someone would write a letter of admonishment to SOA considering all the letters of encouragement and pleas for a very special STI to be delivered to the desires of the American market. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and I admit that I was harsh. I am under the flu right now so excuse me.

Despite the odds, the STI is comming, and it is a win for the Subaru loyalists.

 

I have fallen in love with my bug eyed EJ20 ride, and definitely wont be getting an STi soon (that and no $ ). I for one can't wait for a STi to ride up next to me on the highway, give a wave, and take off in a flash of blue, gold, and pink(Subaru, what were you thinking?!)

chris

 

The h6 engine is a pos. I have asked two of my uncles and my dad (all subaru mechanics of 25+ years, one at Flat Irons, another at John Elway and my dad at Super Rupair) what they think about the H6 and why it isn't put into more Subaru's and each of them say they will never own a car with the H6 engine because they are the worst engine design subaru has released.

 

I've been reading negative posts about this new 2.5t on our club and the others as well. I'm actually sick of reading about it. I'm not trying to be a jerk or trying to jump down anyones throat. I just cant see how this could possibly be a step backwards on any ground. On a performance level, Subaru has done an excellent job. Many other Import companies are envying what Subaru has now done for us. When I say "us", do understand I simply mean the "Subaru Fans" as a WHOLE. This just opens my eyes to the fact that some people are never happy or content. I'm not pointing at you Shadow I just happen to post my feeling on this thread. And yes, I do understand the heritage of the 2.0, but you honestly cannot see this 2.5t on American soil as a step in a GREAT direction? Anyone?

Sorry if I sounded like an ***hole anywhere...my apologies beforehand.

Thanks,

 

My question is, why isn't it sinking in for more people that the 2.5L will be allowed under SCCA ProRally Open Class rules?

If it's rally legal where you're going to be rallying, what's the problem? How does having 2.5L make it any less of a "true rally car"? FIA rules don't matter here! SCCA rules do!

Subaru is taking advantage of SCCA rules in the one market where it makes a difference. I find that not only pleasantly astonishing given the usual oricentric nature of Japanese carmakers, but also incredibly wonderful. It gives Subaru loyalists a definate edge, and that's nothing but wonderful.

 

What is a "dotard" exactly, is that like a retard?

Shadow,

Sorry if this seems like a flame..

Are you dotard?

The 2.5 will provide more torque, more HP. The US market doesn't choose to purchase the WRX or the new STI to go rally with it, they purchase it to drive. Your position is weak considering that the majority of WRX owners have been longing for more cc's, I personaly would love to see the H-6 dropped in and either supercharged or turbocharged. And considering past Subaru quality and reliabality, the 2.5 is going to be a "tank".

If you are adamant on the 2.0, keep the WRX, and you will see the difference when I come around with my 04' STI.

 

A dotard is actually literally a person in his dotage.
dotard=old dude. It's usually derogatory.
I think he may have actually been reaching for "motard" which is old school: motorhead+retard=motard.

As for the original poster - two things
1. Look up the phrase: "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"
2. If you're going to email a manufacturer, try to keep their nomenclature straight: the engine is EJ-20, not FJ-20.

I think the majority of us are pleasantly surprised and many of us are elated that Subaru was both sneaky and brave enough to make this move. If you don't like it - don't buy it.

 

I still say:

(91 octane)+(3 cats)+(American love of HP)+(beat Evo VII)= 2.5L

Isn't this obvious?

My sentiments exactly.

We can thank emissions regulations and octane limitations for our bigger boxer.

No way Subaru was going to be able to keep up with Mits with just 2.0L. I read somewhere recently that the WRX is at a fairly high level of tune already. So, to get a car that will run with the Evo, Subaru did what makes the most sense economically. Tweeking the 2.0L with higherend tunes would cost more and produce less. They already had the 2.5L engine in production. All that had to do was strap a turbo to it and they were golden.

Plus, just think what this car will do with a few aftermarket adjustments

 

Shadow,

Sorry if this seems like a flame..

Are you dotard?

The 2.5 will provide more torque, more HP. The US market doesn't choose to purchase the WRX or the new STI to go rally with it, they purchase it to drive. Your position is weak considering that the majority of WRX owners have been longing for more cc's, I personaly would love to see the H-6 dropped in and either supercharged or turbocharged. And considering past Subaru quality and reliabality, the 2.5 is going to be a "tank".

If you are adamant on the 2.0, keep the WRX, and you will see the difference when I come around with my 04' STI.

MOP, no offense taken. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think the USDM STi will be a serious machine, but I thought it would have been awesome with the FJ20. I'm just disappointed SOA didn't elect to use it. I've done some research and from what I gather the decision on the 2.5 liter engine came down to emissions. I guess it turns out that I'm a WRC purist and a JDM fanatic, the latter I didn't know until recently.

I suppose I'll surrender to the 2.5 liter soon. Perhaps there is no real replacement for displacement.

Kage, I didn't get the engine code wrong. The engine code for the WRX is EJ20, and the engine code for all previous STi models is FJ20.

-Shadow

 

Kage, I didn't get the engine code wrong. The engine code for the WRX is EJ20, and the engine code for all previous STi models is FJ20.

-Shadow

I've never seen that. Every place I've ever seen says EJ20. EJ is the block family, from EJ18 to EJ25's. Like Honda's B/F/H/K-series, Nissans RB/KA/SR series, etc.

 

and the engine code for all previous STi models is FJ20

Care to show some proof of that?

A Japanese company finally did something right for the USA. How long have we longed for such exotic, high HP vehicles over here and get water downed versions or nothing at all? Finally, we get a car that others around the world can finally envy and someone here complains?

And how would a smaller displacement engine, such as the EJ20 be a better choice? Explain please. From what I've heard, they weigh nearly the same. And remember the old saying about displacement...

Mike

 

Shadow,
The full engine code for the standard WRX is EJ-205
The full engine code for the WRX STi (JDM) is EJ-207

There is no such thing as an FJ series engine from Subaru to the best of my knowledge.

 

Shadow,
The full engine code for the standard WRX is EJ-205
The full engine code for the WRX STi (JDM) is EJ-207

There is no such thing as an FJ series engine from Subaru to the best of my knowledge.

Check this thread.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11024&highlight=FJ20

The codes you site are correct, as well. Perhaps there are some discrepancies in nomenclature. On further evaluation, I think my source of error was incorrect documents found on the Internet (imagine that).

Please remember, my opinion of the USDM STi is just that, an opinion. I know the 2.5 liter is awesome, but I think the 276 hp JDM STi would have been awesome as well had it come to America.

-Shadow

 

Here's an editorial in Apex Japan magazine that postulates why Subaru moved to the 2.5 l turbo engine (aside from one-upping Mitsubishi):

http://www.apexjapan.com/editorial/sti.html

Here's an extract:

Most of us need something that's, shall we say, a bit more stealthy, a bit more refined. Of course, we still want it to be ballistic-test fast. And Subaru has gotten out one whopping big 2.5-litre turbo motor and stepped up to the plate. For you won't just see that 2.5-litre in the STi, but in all of the Subaru lineup, barring the WRX. It will not be exactly the same motor, any more than the WRX 2.0-litre was the same as the STi 2.0-litre. It will be a rather strong low-to-mid end 250-270hp motor with equal amounts of torque. One that will run forever due to less boost needed to make power. Gas quality issues will become moot for that reason. Gas mileage may even go up since fuel/air mixtures may not need to be as rich.

The reasoning behind all this engine sharing is one shared by Nissan. Instead of producing several different motors for what is admittedly a small lineup, instead produce one boffo motor and offer it in the entire lineup in various states of tune. Look at Nissan's 350Z, G35 sedan and coupe, Maxima, and Altima to see the future of engine sharing. The great thing is that with the reduced amounts of R&D and larger amounts of motors to split costs over, we get cheaper performance than ever before.

Possibly in America first will we see the other variations of this 2.5 turbo in the upcoming Forester. Then it looks like the promised turbo powerplant for the Baja in the summer. And after all that there comes the brand-new Legacy which will feature this engine. They will all be in different states of tune, with different objectives, but the end result is the same. More Power. Already in the STi are we looking at V8 levels of grunt, and over the next few years, we'll have even more engines with stump pulling power from Subaru.

 

I still say:

(91 octane)+(3 cats)+(American love of HP)+(beat Evo VII)= 2.5L

Isn't this obvious?

I thought everyone understood that?????

This statement below I still don't understand??

I know the 2.5 liter is awesome, but I think the 276 hp JDM STi would have been awesome as well had it come to America.

I don't think it would have been that great because then the STi and the EVO would be basically at the same hp level and same motor discplacement... no one would have gotten all that excited.

However, look at the incredible reaction from everyone INCLUDING all the EVO fans and those that had depsosits on them... many of them are going to be getting the STI now instead!!

 

However, look at the incredible reaction from everyone INCLUDING all the EVO fans and those that had depsosits on them... many of them are going to be getting the STI now instead!!

Don't rush to judgment. Looks like the Evo v. WRX war will now take place on US soil! Nothing like a little competition!

http://www.apexjapan.com/editorial/evo_counter.html

And extract:

So is it really over? No. Just as STi waited for MMC to make the first move, you'd be able to make money on the chances that MMC is either working, or already has prepared the counterpunch. True, the STi gun is rather large - going to 2.5-litres is something that nobody anticipated, and does shatter a lot of preconceptions held on both sides of the water. It signals a whole new performance war in a global sense, for this motor is sure to see other markets as well.

But Subaru and STi are tiny compared to MMC. They've had the benefit of focus, something MMC and other sumo-sized car manufacturers suffer a lack of, but they don't have the R&D staff numbers and budget that MMC has. And something that is rarely mentioned is the fact that inline-4 motors can make more power than the flat-four's that Subaru uses. This isn't because of any inherent goodness to the inline-4 design, but rather due to the fact that far, far more R&D money has been poured into inline-4 engine design by all manufacturers vs. Subaru and Porsche with their flat designs. A similar fate shared by the Wankel rotary motors used by Mazda.

But they know they need a new motor, and they do have larger inline motors in use. Rumours have already been swirling around a 2.4-litre inline 4 turbo motor powering more upscale versions of the base FWD Lancer Cedia in the States. It's not a stretch to see Ralliart and MMC using that as a new base motor for the USDM Evolution, pushing out 310hp/310ft/lb's of torque in true one-upmanship tradition. In the end, I predict that the U.S. market will see exactly the same war that Japan has experienced for the last 10 years. One that has Subaru and MMC releasing a new version of the STi and Evo every year with increases to power, handling and features. All-out mayhem to win the hearts of the enthusiasts.

Isn't competition great?

-Paul Hansen

 

Great article Paul!!!! w00t!!!

 

Don't rush to judgment. Looks like the Evo v. WRX war will now take place on US soil! Nothing like a little competition!

http://www.apexjapan.com/editorial/evo_counter.html

And extract:

Lets hope your right

Many of the DSM guys are going with stroker 2.3s or using the 2.4 block that has been around for years... so hopefully Mitsu will step up and offer the 2.4 block in the EVO soon, very soon... if not, many people, including myself will probably end up with a STi

 

(91 octane)+(3 cats)+(American love of HP)+(beat Evo VII)= 2.5L

my sentiments exactly.

can't wait for a STi to ride up next to me on the highway, give a wave, and take off in a flash of blue, gold, and pink(Subaru, what were you thinking?!)

LOL!!! this is one of the things that keep coming up for me. trying to explain non-motorheads why i want a car with a big ass rear wing/gold wheels and pink emblems on it!!

ook at Nissan's 350Z, G35 sedan and coupe, Maxima, and Altima to see the future of engine sharing.

don't forget the pathfinder and QX4. talk about stretching a motor out!

not that i'm saying that i don't want to see a 2.4 310hp evo ix (unless i buy the sti this summer ) but i think there is a performance ceiling that manufacturers hit while competing with in a certain price bracket. here's a tangent example: 600cc motorcycles. a very competitive market and 4 main players always playing one-upmanship almost every year yet the hp & weight ratings have been relatively stable for a long while. then of course, i could use the 1000cc class as a rebuttal. two years ago the gsx-r1000 came out and whomped everyone with a large enough hp advantage that the other manufacturers are still scrambling to catch up.....
i guess that's where all the other areas of performance start kicking in.... handling, braking, etc...

 

I still say:

(91 octane)+(3 cats)+(American love of HP)+(beat Evo VII)= 2.5L

Isn't this obvious?

Do we know for sure that this thing is getting 3 cats? Wasn't the point of 3 cats on the WRX to meet LEV emissions rating? Do they have any intention of meeting LEV with the STi?