okay i'm a few months into driving stick and sometimes when i come up to traffic i sometimes downshift instead of braking to slow down. now is this bad for the car or is it okay to do? thanks.
***biGRed***
It's called "engine braking". Drivers do if. Soccer Moms don't. Go ahead, be a driver. (Sounds like a VW commercial!)
Just remember, brake pads are cheaper than new rings. So be judicious.
misterx
Just remember, brake pads are cheaper than new rings. So be judicious.
misterx
Well, engine braking is the correct terminology, but it's not a bad thing for the engine as long as you're not inserting the gear into a too high a speed. As Campbell stated "rev matching" would be a good idea.
Engine braking shouldn't be used to stop a car, but should be used in conjunction to braking(the foot kind). Engine braking is a good way to control your speed, not necessarily stop you. As your skill in driving increases you will understand that engine braking is not as vital in a track environment or autocross events. Braking gets you down to speed far faster than engine braking. Going down a hill because your brakes are overheated and you need a way to control speed, engine braking is a good idea.
Overall, it's not bad idea to do so, but not necessarily required in a daily commute to school/work. Use the brake...far better for stopping your car. Plus, it's cheaper to replace the pads.
-LostLamb
Engine braking shouldn't be used to stop a car, but should be used in conjunction to braking(the foot kind). Engine braking is a good way to control your speed, not necessarily stop you. As your skill in driving increases you will understand that engine braking is not as vital in a track environment or autocross events. Braking gets you down to speed far faster than engine braking. Going down a hill because your brakes are overheated and you need a way to control speed, engine braking is a good idea.
Overall, it's not bad idea to do so, but not necessarily required in a daily commute to school/work. Use the brake...far better for stopping your car. Plus, it's cheaper to replace the pads.
-LostLamb
Yah what this guy said! hahahaMisterX said:It's called "engine braking". Drivers do if. Soccer Moms don't. Go ahead, be a driver. (Sounds like a VW commercial!)
Just remember, brake pads are cheaper than new rings. So be judicious.
misterx
Sorry MisterX...didn't see your post there....LOL
You make me sound like I'm redundant...am I redundant? You make me sound like I'm repeating myself.
-LostLamb
Bad. You're using your clutch to speed up the engine. If you're going to do it, make sure you rev match. That means you should make the rpm of the engine match the rpm needed in the gear you're in at the speed you're at.verbal said:
Translation => You shouldn't feel the shift, just the deceleration afterwards.
tcc
If you are running about 3K RPMs in 3rd and want to downshift to 2nd when you approaching a light, you would want to perform the following steps:thechickencow said:
1. Depress clutch, pull shifter to neutral
2. Release clutch, 'blip' throttle (read as give it enough gas to raise the RPMs about 1K.)
3. Depress clutch, slide shifter into 2nd.
4. Finally release clutch about 1K RPMs higher then what they were in 3rd.
This should give you an idea of how to go about it. Don't take it as scripture, just get an idea...Good luck. It makes for much smoother shifts. Feels much nicer than letting the clutch pull the engine up to speed!
okay i use the technique, clutch in, neutral, gas, gear, clutch out. (same as what campbell stated) i hit the gas about the same time i put the shifter into neutral which makes the downshift smooth rather than jerky. however, sometimes i don't time it right when doing a 3 to 2 downshift better when i do 4 to 3. well i only engine brake when for example i see a red light far ahead and think i'm going to fully brake and stop but then the light turns green and i have to go again.
OK, I've been wondering about this myself: I never downshift unless I'm sure the engine will be below 3K. And I let the clutch out nice and gently- I gather from this thread that I should be "rev matching" in order to downshift, as my method is bad for the trans, clutch and piston rings. Is this a decent summary?
hmmm...
i engine brake while rev matching. i personally feel that if you're doing it properly, there is no additional risk to the engine, seals or tranny, and you might as well save your brakes. the engine was designed to handle reasonable loads in reasonable rpm ranges. my brakes are on target for replacement around 50K miles, which is great for any wallet. (my pads are half gone at 30) plus, on ramps and hwy driving, it's great to souble clutch into 4th from a nice cruise to toast a honda.
dR
i engine brake while rev matching. i personally feel that if you're doing it properly, there is no additional risk to the engine, seals or tranny, and you might as well save your brakes. the engine was designed to handle reasonable loads in reasonable rpm ranges. my brakes are on target for replacement around 50K miles, which is great for any wallet. (my pads are half gone at 30) plus, on ramps and hwy driving, it's great to souble clutch into 4th from a nice cruise to toast a honda.
dR
The gas and brake pedals are close together...unlike double clutching (described earlier), you don't pump the clutch.
It's basically:
1. Press the clutch pedal in and hold
2. Slide part of your foot to the acclerator pedal to start to rev-match
3. Downshift
4. As you release the the clutch pedal, slide the foot fully onto the accelerator pedal.
For braking slide the foot back to the brake pedal and repeat.
It's basically:
1. Press the clutch pedal in and hold
2. Slide part of your foot to the acclerator pedal to start to rev-match
3. Downshift
4. As you release the the clutch pedal, slide the foot fully onto the accelerator pedal.
For braking slide the foot back to the brake pedal and repeat.
Most driving instructors and pro drivers will tell you to use the brakes to slow down, and the gears to accelerate. Race cars need to survive a 1-4 hour race, and we need to make our cars last much longer. As you hit the apex, have the car in the proper gear and accelerate off the corner. Not having the tranny/engine rev matched can really unstettle the car, as I found out at a Skip Barber class when I went spinning into pit entrance. Didn't hit anything and I kept it running. It was friggin great.
Downshifting because you have to slow down is ok..part of everyday driving, but why even bother with abusing your engine and transmission to stop your car. Most cars on the road are automatics, do you see any type of engine braking used or suggested with these cars...not usually..maybe on a long steep grade...there might be a sign saying to use a lower gear..usually for trucks.
someone said ..." Going down a hill because your brakes are overheated and you need a way to control speed, engine braking is a good idea. " true if you are driving a big tractor trailer or similar where all the help possible is needed to stop a heavy vehicle. those transmissions and engines are DESIGNED for engine braking!
does your wrx need help slowing itself down..? if it does..you got a brake problem..take to dealer...otherwise ...yes it is bad for the car... do you think spinning unnecessary rpms on your engine is good for it in any way? what about putting all that stress back on the tranny? or your expensive awd system? engine mounts? clutch? do you like loosing fuel econemy? do you like doing what all the rice cakers do in their civics everytime they slow to a stop light?
if you want to be connected with you car..great..shift smart..anticipate your gears. downshift when necessary, for additional power or because you are slowing down, not to slow down. Use your brakes to slow down!..my $.02
someone said ..." Going down a hill because your brakes are overheated and you need a way to control speed, engine braking is a good idea. " true if you are driving a big tractor trailer or similar where all the help possible is needed to stop a heavy vehicle. those transmissions and engines are DESIGNED for engine braking!
does your wrx need help slowing itself down..? if it does..you got a brake problem..take to dealer...otherwise ...yes it is bad for the car... do you think spinning unnecessary rpms on your engine is good for it in any way? what about putting all that stress back on the tranny? or your expensive awd system? engine mounts? clutch? do you like loosing fuel econemy? do you like doing what all the rice cakers do in their civics everytime they slow to a stop light?
if you want to be connected with you car..great..shift smart..anticipate your gears. downshift when necessary, for additional power or because you are slowing down, not to slow down. Use your brakes to slow down!..my $.02
Yes, I think perhaps we're confusing downshifting while slowing down with downshifting in order to slow down... If I am slowing from 4th gear to a stoplight, I slow down to about 1.9k rpm's, double-clutch it into 3rd (I rev it up to about 3k in that situation to match revs). Then, depending upon the lenght left, I either downshift again into 2nd or just lev the engine slow down and de-clutch while coasting to a stop using the brakes.jedimaster said:
-snowcat
that's different than engine braking. what CC said is engine braking. you don't have the clutch release slow you down. the clutch release should just complete the rev match or increased rpms in a lower gear to match the flywheel. then the engine decerates on it's own, slowing you down.verbal said:
Carfan,
no additional wear to your clutch or engine is realized in a proper rev matched downshift. Automatics DO use engine braking as they decelerate in conjuction with brakes. there is no such thing as an engined "designed" for engine braking. not even in a truck as you mention. they engine brake for the same reasons you should. to conserve brake pads. engine braking is using the normal aspects of your engine to slow you down so there is no additional wear to the clutch (aside from a normal in/out), tranny, or engine as you speak of. it's just a typical deceleration.
please make sure you are well read on a subject before posting such concrete advice "yes it is bad for your car, tranny, engine mounts etc." spreading incorrect information helps no one.
dR
To clear up some of the comments here:
Anytime you let your clutch out slowly is abusing it.
If you are modulating the clutch while in a lower gear in order to decelerate, it's not good for the clutch. However, if you downshift to a lower gear and blip the throttle to rev-match, then release the clutch normally, you are not harming any of your components. The tranny might sustain slightly more wear, but it's not really significant.
This technique is really not even needed during normal driving. I usually just downshift once, then just engage the clutch and use the brakes to slow down.
Rev-matching becomes extremely important during racing, autocrossing, spirited driving, and cornering. If you're going into a corner too hot, let's say in third gear, you'll need to slow the car down. But you also want to be able to accelerate imediately after exiting the corner. To do this, you'll have to shift to second gear. However, in doing so you don't want to upset the attitude of the car (make the shift as smooth as possible so as to not lose traction). Rev-matching and/or heel-toe shifting during the corner allows you to be in the proper gear and ready to accelerate, while at the same time being smooth.
Any driving school worth $2.00 will teach you this technique. I practice it all the time whenever I take a corner that I need to slow down for. It takes a lot of experience to get it smooth.
Anytime you let your clutch out slowly is abusing it.
If you are modulating the clutch while in a lower gear in order to decelerate, it's not good for the clutch. However, if you downshift to a lower gear and blip the throttle to rev-match, then release the clutch normally, you are not harming any of your components. The tranny might sustain slightly more wear, but it's not really significant.
This technique is really not even needed during normal driving. I usually just downshift once, then just engage the clutch and use the brakes to slow down.
Rev-matching becomes extremely important during racing, autocrossing, spirited driving, and cornering. If you're going into a corner too hot, let's say in third gear, you'll need to slow the car down. But you also want to be able to accelerate imediately after exiting the corner. To do this, you'll have to shift to second gear. However, in doing so you don't want to upset the attitude of the car (make the shift as smooth as possible so as to not lose traction). Rev-matching and/or heel-toe shifting during the corner allows you to be in the proper gear and ready to accelerate, while at the same time being smooth.
Any driving school worth $2.00 will teach you this technique. I practice it all the time whenever I take a corner that I need to slow down for. It takes a lot of experience to get it smooth.
dark_rex.. you're the one spreading incorrect info....
first..auto trannies in most cars and trucks provide NO engine braking whatsoever!!!!none...I have a 01 full size truck with v-8 auto...I can coast for miles if I don't hit the brakes..my tranny doesn't slow me down at all..same in my wifes auto car and every auto car I have ever driven..try it some day. auto trannies and manual trannies aren't designed for slowing a vehicle down at all!! yes.. my auto tranny downshifts as i slow down, but only to properly match my speed.
second..there are vehicles that are designed to slow down with the help of the engine...like a semi!! have you ever heard of a jake's brake? sp? but it is a whole system in a semi that uses engine compression and the use of the transmission to slow down a large heavy truck...you might hear them as they go down steep hills or come to a stop..very loud sound..
please make sure you are well read before you start talking smack on someone who knows more that you. keep on trying to say that it benefits you to use your engine and tranny to stop you car. keep on telling yourself that unnecessary strain of the engine, transmission, clutch, drivetrain is better than just using the well thought out, cheaper, smoother, more accurate brakes in everyday driving. by the way, I'm sure your passengers will appreciate the way their heads fly forward in an abrupt manner everytime you downshift to slow your car down.
what theJrod said here is very true .."
Rev-matching becomes extremely important during racing, autocrossing, spirited driving, and cornering. If you're going into a corner too hot, let's say in third gear, you'll need to slow the car down. But you also want to be able to accelerate imediately after exiting the corner. To do this, you'll have to shift to second gear. However, in doing so you don't want to upset the attitude of the car (make the shift as smooth as possible so as to not lose traction). Rev-matching and/or heel-toe shifting during the corner allows you to be in the proper gear and ready to accelerate, while at the same time being smooth.
this is the best example and just reason to do this to your tranny..... rev matching for the above reason is ok..but in everyday driving and stopping use your brakes to slow down your wrx....
forget about what darkrex says..he proved to you all he is ignorant when he said...."they engine brake for the same reasons you should. to conserve brake pads."...this has to be the dumbest sentence I have read here. To conserve break pads? what, the CHEAPEST, most disposable part of your car? a part that is made to wear out and be replaced very easily and inexpensively. Also, if conserving brake pads is your priority..you bought the wrong car...get a non high performance commuter car. Second..if you own a wrx and insist on having the longest brake lifespan on your block...then just be mellow on your brakes and drive slow. hehe didn't think so.
I think anyone who is wondering has read enough. Its clear to me, but hey..if you think you are saving money and stopping faster/better/cooler by letting your engine and tranny take the abuse..go ahead..its not my car, but I guarantee that if you plan on owning your car for a long time, it will come back to haunt you. As far as I know..the wrx tranny isn't the toughest, but I hear the brakes are good!
first..auto trannies in most cars and trucks provide NO engine braking whatsoever!!!!none...I have a 01 full size truck with v-8 auto...I can coast for miles if I don't hit the brakes..my tranny doesn't slow me down at all..same in my wifes auto car and every auto car I have ever driven..try it some day. auto trannies and manual trannies aren't designed for slowing a vehicle down at all!! yes.. my auto tranny downshifts as i slow down, but only to properly match my speed.
second..there are vehicles that are designed to slow down with the help of the engine...like a semi!! have you ever heard of a jake's brake? sp? but it is a whole system in a semi that uses engine compression and the use of the transmission to slow down a large heavy truck...you might hear them as they go down steep hills or come to a stop..very loud sound..
please make sure you are well read before you start talking smack on someone who knows more that you. keep on trying to say that it benefits you to use your engine and tranny to stop you car. keep on telling yourself that unnecessary strain of the engine, transmission, clutch, drivetrain is better than just using the well thought out, cheaper, smoother, more accurate brakes in everyday driving. by the way, I'm sure your passengers will appreciate the way their heads fly forward in an abrupt manner everytime you downshift to slow your car down.
what theJrod said here is very true .."
Rev-matching becomes extremely important during racing, autocrossing, spirited driving, and cornering. If you're going into a corner too hot, let's say in third gear, you'll need to slow the car down. But you also want to be able to accelerate imediately after exiting the corner. To do this, you'll have to shift to second gear. However, in doing so you don't want to upset the attitude of the car (make the shift as smooth as possible so as to not lose traction). Rev-matching and/or heel-toe shifting during the corner allows you to be in the proper gear and ready to accelerate, while at the same time being smooth.
this is the best example and just reason to do this to your tranny..... rev matching for the above reason is ok..but in everyday driving and stopping use your brakes to slow down your wrx....
forget about what darkrex says..he proved to you all he is ignorant when he said...."they engine brake for the same reasons you should. to conserve brake pads."...this has to be the dumbest sentence I have read here. To conserve break pads? what, the CHEAPEST, most disposable part of your car? a part that is made to wear out and be replaced very easily and inexpensively. Also, if conserving brake pads is your priority..you bought the wrong car...get a non high performance commuter car. Second..if you own a wrx and insist on having the longest brake lifespan on your block...then just be mellow on your brakes and drive slow. hehe didn't think so.
I think anyone who is wondering has read enough. Its clear to me, but hey..if you think you are saving money and stopping faster/better/cooler by letting your engine and tranny take the abuse..go ahead..its not my car, but I guarantee that if you plan on owning your car for a long time, it will come back to haunt you. As far as I know..the wrx tranny isn't the toughest, but I hear the brakes are good!
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