Wondering the differences and which one is better?
Cold Air vs Short Ram intake
tofugc8
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Very possible. Takes a lot of stickers and some AutoZone chrome "vents".
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Have to agree there... seems like a lot. I'm definitely no expert, but i've been looking at a lot of dyno results lately and that doesn't add up with those few mods.
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And you (and the others that replied) would be correct. Brain fart. Was looking at stage 2 options as I replied to this. I'm probably at 270-280ish whp/wtq right now, and if I do the stage 2 should be at 300-310ish.
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I'd like to be right at 300-320... but i've asked 4 different tuners now and all 4 have given me 4 different responses ... some similar... some adding stuff that isn't even necessary IMO anyway. If that link is true and that place got 280 whp on a mustang dyno with those few mods then that's the way to go IMO anyway.And you (and the others that replied) would be correct. Brain fart. Was looking at stage 2 options as I replied to this. I'm probably at 270-280ish whp/wtq right now, and if I do the stage 2 should be at 300-310ish.
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Bah. All you guys and your "experience" and "researched" advice. I've found my modification bible.
Five Steps to Making More Power in Your Subaru WRX - Gearbox - Car and Driver
:zing:
Five Steps to Making More Power in Your Subaru WRX - Gearbox - Car and Driver
:zing:
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What did they recommend?
I'm still surprised Hill recommended the stock intake for me. Maybe because I'm not doing a fuel pump and injectors...
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Well, with all of the tuners I talked to I believe he told me a TBE, PW IC, an AP, I think one other thing. I'm pretty sure that there was something else, but with the one link with just a CBE, injectors and the intake and making 280 whp on a mustang dyno? Either that dyno reads high, or people are trying to sell me stuff I don't need. I know the IC will net about 20-25 hp, so that one I do understand... but there is little proof that the entire TBE past the downpipe adds that much power vs. price. I would think there would be a less expensive mod out there that would make just as much if not more power. Hill seems like a good guy and that it's a good place, but i'm just not buying an AP when I don't have to. I'm still waiting for Element tuning to get back to me... I also referenced to him the link with the intake and injectors. I have heard only good things about them as well. I'm doing an opensource tune though... not paying 600.00 more. No point.
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It was most likely an EBCS for better boost control and bpv since the wrx has a plastic one. The test in that link was an STi with a catted TBE, not just a CBE. The IC and bpv is much better on the STi's than the wrx also. So, that dyno is a tad on the lower side for a protuned STi with those parts.
As for the CBE debate, I've never seen any dyno proven differences. A friend of mine has a down pipe with a muffler delete and talked to Agile about a tune and they said the piping is pretty restrictive where the stock mid pipe Y's on the sedan so they suggest a full 3 inch tbe.
I agree with you on the AP but I do use mine a good bit while driving the car. You can pick one up for $525 but that's not much of a difference.
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Ok guys... I heard back from Phil at Element tuning... very honest guy it seems like... this is what he had to say about the meth injection as well as a full exhaust, etc...
"Yes with a stock turbocharger there aren't huge gains with the water/meth like we get with the larger turbochargers where gains can approach +100 whp.
At 280-300 whp you're not going to see huge gains on certain parts because at that power level you aren't really asking that much from the exhaust system or the intake. On 600 HP cars we've seen gains as high 80 whp with the right exhaust. So for now a good DP and a tune is really where your money is best spent. A little here and a little there does add up to some gains but at a large expense. They will pay off later when you go to a larger turbocharger etc.
Now 300 whp with those mods sounds like a lofty goal to me and I will be up front I don't tend to tune the factory ECU and engine very aggressively. I prefer to tune it in a way I know you can beat on it and it will be safely tuned. "
"Yes with a stock turbocharger there aren't huge gains with the water/meth like we get with the larger turbochargers where gains can approach +100 whp.
At 280-300 whp you're not going to see huge gains on certain parts because at that power level you aren't really asking that much from the exhaust system or the intake. On 600 HP cars we've seen gains as high 80 whp with the right exhaust. So for now a good DP and a tune is really where your money is best spent. A little here and a little there does add up to some gains but at a large expense. They will pay off later when you go to a larger turbocharger etc.
Now 300 whp with those mods sounds like a lofty goal to me and I will be up front I don't tend to tune the factory ECU and engine very aggressively. I prefer to tune it in a way I know you can beat on it and it will be safely tuned. "
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I think I will go with them over the other local guys I have spoken with, just because he is honest, does the opensource tuning, and i've heard basically all good things about him.
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198 Posts
holy dyno numbers batman this is a in depth intake thread...just my .02 i dont understand how anyone can say a aftermarket intake isnt better than stock. the stock intake on any car, or any motor are so restrictive due to carb,dot, and all the other crap manufactures or forced to comply with. how does a panel filter in a encloser get as much air as a open element? more air=more power on any combustion motor. for ex. my quad is known to have the least restritive intake out of any sport model. remove the air box, put a filter on the stock tube and its dyno proven 1.5 hp. even with stock air box and k&n style filter is over 1 hp. replacing the whole intake tube and open filter 2.5 hp peak and 4. something in mid dyno proven on stock motor...another thing to consider is our cars obviously have the hood scoop so it might bring more fresh air to a short ram vs trying to get air through the bumber/fender.dont know if there is any research on this or not but just a theory.
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31,188 Posts
OK this is IMO an interesting topic; here are my views:
The stock intake on my car is also fitted on a car that makes 23% more power, stock from the factory. This means the stock intake on my car is not limiting power output.
Here's something relevant: Show my one "open" filter or one imitation (the "tuners" call it "aftermarket" but if it's not an authentic part, it's imitation...) intake that filters air better than stock. Used oil analyses showing reduced silicone in the oil compared to stock would do fine for this.
Because the aftermarket intake isn't better than stock.
The stock intake on my car is also fitted on a car that makes 23% more power, stock from the factory. This means the stock intake on my car is not limiting power output.
Where are the data to support this? See above. Your car may vary, but the stock intake on my WRX is outstanding.
I don't see the relevance.
Here's something relevant: Show my one "open" filter or one imitation (the "tuners" call it "aftermarket" but if it's not an authentic part, it's imitation...) intake that filters air better than stock. Used oil analyses showing reduced silicone in the oil compared to stock would do fine for this.
Except we're not discussing the quad, and the quad is likely atmospherically aspirated. It is also unlikely to be expected to survive the same time/miles as a good road car. Since dirt in the motor translates to wear on the motor, good filtration is crucial, at least for my motor. And, since my stock intake is not reducing output, I have nothing to lose by keeping the authentic part and not using an imitation.
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your right you dont have anything to lose, and the stock wrx intake is excellent thus me giving an example of my quad which also has a excellent intake. its also designed to be a cheap, mass produced part to comply with above agencies. just like the downpipe, and exhaust. changing you mufflers out may not give you dyno hp numbers, but it will give you better flow, as the stock cbe is pretty good on the newer cars. i personally, and fam, friends etc having been ridding for 20+ years in the desert and dunes with k&n style filters and not once have had a problem due "lack of filtration". im pretty sure those conditons are far worse than the car would ever see. i have had k&n intakes on all three of my cars with no issues. i have had it on my titan for 4 years, go offroading and all, no issues. i just cleaned my tb and intake tube last week and i was even suprised how clean it was.
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198 Posts
the data to support that a aftermarket intake is better is all over for several cars. i personally dont have data on all cars and so forth cause that would be rediculous lol. judging by your number of post im sure you have way more knowledge on these cars than i ever will, just adding my .02 is all
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