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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone found an aftermarket dealer that makes a FMIC that mounts above the bumper beam instead of below it?

The WRC, and all other works Subies have these FMICs with STi painted on them that are visible through the top grill. I am interested in this set up to get the best of both worlds in terms of the improved heat transfer of a FMIC without all of the extra intake piping = extra lag, that goes along with a set up like APS. If it isn't available in the aftermarket, I'll just stick with the TMIC. i spend most of my track time on short tight tracks, so lag is much more critical than a couple extra ponies.
 

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the tons of lag that goes with an APS intercooler - is a myth.
I have the DR650 and the SR40 - I am making 18.5 psi at 3600 rpm!

That said - a WRC intercooler - would be cool - the intake rotate by 180 degrees would be cool too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Thanks fengshui. I'll ask them if they have a kit. If it comes down to a custom job, I'll either stick with the TMIC or find a local to do it. That way if the core leaks, or I have problems, I have some leverage to work with.

AussieinStLouis, I don't doubt that the APS FMIC can produce a lot of low end power. However, lag is something that can not be quantified by dyno numbers. ie. It isn't the 18.5 psi at 3600 rpm that concerns me, but the time it takes to go from 0 psi to 18.5 psi at 3600 rpm. The more volume there is to fill, the longer it will take to reach peak boost at any rpm. That isn't much of a problem when you are at WOT, pulling through all 6 gears. But when you are in 3rd, on a road course, going from total throttle lift (0 psi) to WOT every five seconds, lag can be more of a problem than the extra power is worth. In that situation, too small of an IC is actually better than too big. But that WRC IC looks like it would be the best of both worlds.

Edit:
Now that I have had a visual reference, that set up looks perfect. The inlet and outlet fit under the hood. A straight shot at the intake would be about 90 degrees pivoted around the axle. If the turbo was rotated 180 degrees, it would almost have a straight run to the IC. Does the WRC car use the scoop as the air intake?
 

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I don't think that you would want a core as thick as the APS units, as the lag myth is not made up, just a tad overblown. Anyway, my point is that for the same IC volume, you could have more 'cold' surface or frontal area which would make the entire core more efficient. With a shallower depth, it would also pass air from front to back more easily.

I had installed a Volvo Turbo intercooler on my Isuzu and it took up pretty much every available inch of front end surface area. Supposedly from what I have read elsewhere, that IC is somewhat restrictive, however a little extra boost overcame that ok - with intake temperatures of <100F on a 65F day running 20 psi. Even cranking the pressure up to 28 psi never put it past 150F.

I know it's apples and oranges, but I think that this is a concept worth exploring.
 

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Forgot to mention that I intend to fabricate my own FMIC of this type - probably using a cut down turbo diesel IC from a truck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Price is definitely a big factor. The one mentioned here has a list price that is around $2000. I still haven't received a response from them whether this is a kit or just the IC. Having to relocate the hood latch is another big spoiler. Until I know what must be done for installation, I can't say for sure why this isn't a more popular set up.

My biggest problem with the stock IC is the flow pattern is all wrong. Even though they have two inlet connections, the fact that the IC is wider than it is tall makes it hard to believe that flow is going through all of the tubes. At least enough to make a difference. The FMIC on the link above at least has the flow across the long axis of the IC. So not only do I expect the mounting location to help, but the flow pattern as well.
 

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There is somthing like that on the mitsu rally car at a shop I go to. I can take pics if you want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It looked to me like the A/C evaporator is located beneath a structural beam. Also, the WRC cars are required to have A/C on certain rallies, so I can't imagine that they would completely relocate it, or cut the structural beam. If you remove the grill, it looks like there is plenty of room between the evaporator and the bumper for a thin IC, if you remove the hood latch. But I'm starting to think this IC might not be big enough to handle the additional flow of the 2.5 L.
 

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VVVV said:
It looked to me like the A/C evaporator is located beneath a structural beam. Also, the WRC cars are required to have A/C on certain rallies, so I can't imagine that they would completely relocate it, or cut the structural beam. If you remove the grill, it looks like there is plenty of room between the evaporator and the bumper for a thin IC, if you remove the hood latch. But I'm starting to think this IC might not be big enough to handle the additional flow of the 2.5 L.
Which rallies require the use of AC? As far I know, last year's Acropolis rally was the first time Peugot tested AC during a rally. Other manufacturers just use a roof vent or a small fan inside the cabin to cool the drivers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Last year during Acropolis, Richard Burns tested a new A/C unit that cools 20 F lower than the typical system installed on the cars. They have had A/C that does a slight amount of cooling on the cars for Cyprus, Acropolis, and I think Kenya, and now Turkey. It is mandated by the WRC to prevent the teams or drivers from choosing to risk dangerous cabin temperatures (can get > 130 F) in order for a slight edge. It only cools down to about 100 F. Burns' trial system was designed to get down to 80 F at the same conditions. And based on his results, I'd say the added comfort made up for the slight increase in power draw.
 

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VVVV said:
Last year during Acropolis, Richard Burns tested a new A/C unit that cools 20 F lower than the typical system installed on the cars. They have had A/C that does a slight amount of cooling on the cars for Cyprus, Acropolis, and I think Kenya, and now Turkey. It is mandated by the WRC to prevent the teams or drivers from choosing to risk dangerous cabin temperatures (can get > 130 F) in order for a slight edge. It only cools down to about 100 F. Burns' trial system was designed to get down to 80 F at the same conditions. And based on his results, I'd say the added comfort made up for the slight increase in power draw.
All I can find is that Peugot had AC in two rounds last year, Acropolis(2 cars - Burns/Rovanpera) and Cyprus(all 3 cars - Burns/Gronholm/Rovanpera). I can't find anything that says that any other manufacturer used AC during last year's WRC. I know that cabin and driver temperature(Phil Mills participated by swallowing a temperature sensor during Acropolis) was studied last year, but as far I know no ruling has been made concerning the lowering of cabin temperature. If this is a new rule for 2004, I would appreciate it if you can point me to a press release or something. Thanks!
 

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Bump this thread for several specific reasons:


1) Does anyone out there know of any way to get an ACTUAL subaru rally front mount, like...the REAL McCoy? (price irrelevant)

2) Does anyone have any other links/resources for making one?

3) Has anybody done this (180 degree manifold reversal, AC removal, WRC fmic install)?


Thanks :thumbup:

~Tim
 

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Yes its all been done it just takes $$$ and time. The JUN wrx has the turbo behind where our stock TMIC's are with the compressor going straight out to a intercooler above the bumper beam which exits in eqal lenth on either side to 2 cylinders each.

Doing the exact wrc set up would be hard because the wrc engine is mounted further back then it is in our cars giving it more space to work with up front.
 

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Timdog1650 said:
Bump this thread for several specific reasons:


1) Does anyone out there know of any way to get an ACTUAL subaru rally front mount, like...the REAL McCoy? (price irrelevant)

2) Does anyone have any other links/resources for making one?

3) Has anybody done this (180 degree manifold reversal, AC removal, WRC fmic install)?


Thanks :thumbup:

~Tim
Our buddy Jeff @ Chaste Auto in LA can help you out.

http://www.chasteauto.com/

New they are $10,000+ Just for the FMIC.

Here is one he sold for $11,500+ Shipping. Sold QUICK too.


Here is what he said about it.

Actually the cores for both the intercooler and radiator are quite trick. Military Aviation quality stuff very nice and believe me very pricey. New the setup is 13500 or thereabouts. Remember it is teh core that makes it special. I should note that it includes wiring.
-Mike
 

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Any idea what kind of turbo he was running with that setup? did it need a custom UP or DP? Did he get the IC piping included in that price, or did he have to get it fabbed after the fact?


Thanks for the pics, this is absolutely what I want!
 
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