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I thought Home Depot's prices were fairly decent. If one location doesn't have it, try another. I've definitely found it there.
Other options would be small paint stores perhaps. You could probably purchase it online, maybe ebay. I've purchased a lot of chemicals on there.
If all of this fails you get an Aldritch catalogue.
 

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Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.
 

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A2: Experience of Charlie Smith in 2002. Sherwin Williams paint stores have it for $5.00 in a gallon can. They can order it in a 5 gallon can at $4.00 / gallon. They can order 55 gallon drums for about the same cost per gallon, but you have to have a dock unloading facility to get the drum(s) off of the delivery truck.




READ the msds before you play with this stuff.
http://www.temarry.com/MSDS/Toluene_msds.htm
 

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X- did you ever find it? How did you like it?
 

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what is the equivlent octane of toluene

what is the octane rating of toluene and how do you calculate the final octane of your mix, by mass?

luke
 

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Toulene
R+M/2...114
Q: How much toluene should I use per tank of gas?
A: Octane ratings can be very easily calculated by simple averaging. For example, the tank of an Audi A4 1.8TQ is 15.6 gallons. Filling it with 14.6 gallons of 92 octane and 1 gallon of toluene (114 octane) will yield a fuel mix of:
(14.6 * 92) + (1 * 114) / 15.6 = 93.4
The Audi A4 1.8T is a good example of a car that has very high octane needs if it has been modified to produce more turbo boost. The base compression ratio of this car is a very high 9.5:1 and when an additional 1 bar (14.7 psi) of turbo boost is applied on top of it, the resulting effective compression ratio is way beyond what 92 or 93 octane fuel can ever hope to cope with. Most modified 1.8Ts running without octane enhancement are running with severely retarded ignition timing and boost.
 

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I bought some at Ace Hardware....but that stuff was expensive there...$15 a gallon. I wanted to see how effective it was...and for me, I did't notice a huge gain, however, I did put it in with a half tank of gas, then filled it up on top of that..and I started with 92 octane from Amaco. Another reason that I didn't really feel the difference was b/c of some abnormal driving, for some reason I kept it pretty tame and didn't get on it too much with that tank of gas. I don't remember what the circumstances were..but I don't feel as if that gallon in particular was that great.
I want to try it out again...but I also want to find it cheaper.
I too am unable to locate it at any of the larger stores like home depot, & lowes...I'll let you all know if I do in fact find some.
 

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In New York, Sherwin Williams sells it for $30.75 for a 5 gallon container ($6.15/gallon). I haven't tried it yet.
 

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You guys that are using Toulene please be careful. The off the shelf stuff is NOT the same as the industrial grade. The off the shelf stuff does not raise octane enough for it to matter. Maybe a point or two on a tank which to me seems pointless. Better to go buy C12 or C16 fuel somewhere nearby. Not much more expensive and works a hell of a lot better.
 

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What is C12 or C16?
 

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I need to go get some of that. Just throw a little nitric acid in there, and shake it up, KABOOM! j/k :D Don't try this at home, or anywhere else for that matter..
 

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Fun with toluene

I'd be a lot happier going some place and buying fuel that's simply pumped into the car than having stuff like toluene in large quantities around. Setting the whole explosive thing aside, since decent containers and common sense are, um, common, toluene is a carcinogen and a teratogen.

There are cases of children born to women exposed to toluene vapors throughout their pregnancy that had CNS problems, microcephaly (literally, "small head"), limb abnormalities, cranial abnormalities, and developmental problems.

Got a headache from the stuff? Got aspirin? People did work almost 20 years ago showing both maternal and embryonic toxicity increase when toluene is inhaled and aspirin taken orally.

Now, I'm the first to admit a good write-up can make even common table salt or spring water seem like the most toxic substance known to man, but there are dozens of papers out there on this and I only remember a couple off hand, and I promise I'm not overstating stuff. I just don't like organic solvents, never been a fan.

US gasoline differs from EU super-unleaded, and our cars are tuned accordingly. A good tank of race gas when "needed" is preferable IMO to running about sourcing fairly rude chemicals and then dealing with their storage. If you must buy the stuff, get chemical grade from a lab supplier - at least you'll get your money's worth (and it'll be cheaper than analytical grade or whatever term your vendor uses). If you want to save $ and go from hardware stores, it might be worth it to contact the manufacturer of the paint thinner or whatever you're eyeballing and getting hold of the MSDS - thay can fax or snail mail it to you and it'll list composition so you'll be able to guesstimate purity, and at least know what you're burning.

I don't think it's worth the hassle, but that's me. I vote for turning the boost down to stock, working on the fueling curve for max safe torque, and spending the money on suspension or a weekend trip to catch a local rally stage or two - but that's just IMO.
 

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God said:
You guys that are using Toulene please be careful. The off the shelf stuff is NOT the same as the industrial grade. The off the shelf stuff does not raise octane enough for it to matter. Maybe a point or two on a tank which to me seems pointless. Better to go buy C12 or C16 fuel somewhere nearby. Not much more expensive and works a hell of a lot better.
God, I never tried toluene, but why would the "off the shelf stuff" be different? If I remember my chemical engineering, toluene is just methylbenzene, a benzene ring with a methyl group.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Obviously, I was unclear with my initial post. Neither HD or Lowes had toluene.

The question that remains is, what difference would there be between toluene available at retail and "industrial" toluene.

X
 

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Re: Fun with toluene

SD_GR said:
I'd be a lot happier going some place and buying fuel that's simply pumped into the car than having stuff like toluene in large quantities around. Setting the whole explosive thing aside, since decent containers and common sense are, um, common, toluene is a carcinogen and a teratogen.

There are cases of children born to women exposed to toluene vapors throughout their pregnancy that had CNS problems, microcephaly (literally, "small head"), limb abnormalities, cranial abnormalities, and developmental problems.

Got a headache from the stuff? Got aspirin? People did work almost 20 years ago showing both maternal and embryonic toxicity increase when toluene is inhaled and aspirin taken orally.

Now, I'm the first to admit a good write-up can make even common table salt or spring water seem like the most toxic substance known to man, but there are dozens of papers out there on this and I only remember a couple off hand, and I promise I'm not overstating stuff. I just don't like organic solvents, never been a fan.
Regarding the "explosive thing", I have a gallon of gasoline in a gas can for my lawnmower in my garage. It is explosive.

FWIW, toluene is not a known carcinogen. http://srd.yahoo.com/S=2766679:WS1/.../*http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov:8080/tfacts56.html

Toluene is nasty stuff to inhale. So is the gasoline in my garage. FWIW, toluene is a component of gasoline. Also, I wouldn't let my children, any pregnant woman, or anyone else for that matter sniff the gasoline in my garage or my fuel tank (or any other organic solvent). IIRC, toluene is the substance in glue that some people sniff. It is bad stuff to deliberately inhale.


SD_GR said:
US gasoline differs from EU super-unleaded, and our cars are tuned accordingly. A good tank of race gas when "needed" is preferable IMO to running about sourcing fairly rude chemicals and then dealing with their storage. If you must buy the stuff, get chemical grade from a lab supplier - at least you'll get your money's worth (and it'll be cheaper than analytical grade or whatever term your vendor uses). If you want to save $ and go from hardware stores, it might be worth it to contact the manufacturer of the paint thinner or whatever you're eyeballing and getting hold of the MSDS - thay can fax or snail mail it to you and it'll list composition so you'll be able to guesstimate purity, and at least know what you're burning.

I don't think it's worth the hassle, but that's me. I vote for turning the boost down to stock, working on the fueling curve for max safe torque, and spending the money on suspension or a weekend trip to catch a local rally stage or two - but that's just IMO.
Yes, our cars are tuned for pump gas, but some of us have changed the tune. I don't know where race gas is available for sale.

Regarding purity, I haven't used toluene but I would assume that if I buy a gallon of toluene that the liquid in the container is toluene. If it contains something else, wouldn't it be listed on the container?

I'm not trying to slam you, I'm just trying to determine if this is something that would be good for occassional use. I certainly hope that if someone does use this, that they use it responsibly. It should certainly be in an appropriate container and away from children or anyone else who could breathe the vapors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Rich10 wrote:

Regarding purity, I haven't used toluene but I would assume that if I buy a gallon of toluene that the liquid in the container is toluene. If it contains something else, wouldn't it be listed on the container?
My point exactly. Were I to purchase a container labeled "toluene", that's exactly what I'd expect to find in that container. As far as I know, there are no variations of toluene. Either the compound is toluene or it isn't.

X
 

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The difference would be in the amount of impurities you find in the toluene. For the most part, what you find on the shelves in home depot should be almost entirely toluene and whatever else you find in it should not affect performance.

P.S. Purity information will not be listed in application where it does not matter, in this case toluene is meant to be used as a solvent. I'm guessing it should be somewhere around 95% and up. Toluene is relatively easy to separate.
 
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