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The EPA can't stop up from having fast cars in the near future either!


"Lexus said preliminary specs for the 400h include:
270 horsepower.
Mileage "significantly better" than the 28 mpg that an average compact sedan gets.
New pollution controls.
"You can drive the 400h from Los Angeles to New York and back nine times and produce less smog-forming emissions than painting a room in your house," Toyota Vice President Irv Miller told industry analysts earlier this year.
Lexus hasn't said how many 400hs it plans to manufacture monthly, and industry watchers caution it may take some time before Lexus can deliver them to consumers."
 

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Has anyone noticed this and the Infity FX are station wagons with big wheels? Are we all turning into 1980's Mexicans, not that there's anything wrong with that...
 

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I am all for fun, fast and most of all emission clean cars. But I still love the pur of my gas cars. And I will never get rid of one of them.
 

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Personally, I've always been tempted to buy a 60's era muscle car (no cats and lots of fuel consumption, if you get my drift :D ) and do a burnout in the EPA parking lot. Good idea? ;)
 

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I'm all for better gas mileage and worse emissions. F*ck you, hippies.

On a side note, today I took off all the emissions crap on my Trans Am. I hope Ralph Nader chokes to death on the fumes.
 

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Tail_Lights_Fad said:
Personally, I've always been tempted to buy a 60's era muscle car (no cats and lots of fuel consumption, if you get my drift :D ) and do a burnout in the EPA parking lot. Good idea? ;)
YEAH MAN!!!!! that would be awesome!!!!

and you know whats even cooler! when the world loses access to its largest resource, and society will have to change the way it conducts business and operates as a whole. Not to mention all the coolness of a large increase in athsma among new born children and all new findings of skin cancer due to accessive holes in the 0-zone layer......

THATS GONNA BE THE COOLEST!!!:rolleyes:
(your an idiot)



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DTR rex said:
YEAH MAN!!!!! that would be awesome!!!!

and you know whats even cooler! when the world loses access to its largest resource, and society will have to change the way it conducts business and operates as a whole. Not to mention all the coolness of a large increase in athsma among new born children and all new findings of skin cancer due to accessive holes in the 0-zone layer......
)
First off, CFCs cause holes in the ozone, and as far as I know, one of the emissions problems with petroleum powered vehicles is not chloroflourocarbons. People usually complain about the carbon dioxide released from combustion as it "leads to global warming." But guess what? By far, the largest amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere is due to respiration. So if we really want to cut back, we need to start killing many more useless animals. But no one ever offers this as a solution.

Second, petroleum is not the world's largest resource. I don't know where you got that from. Also, we are in no danger of running out of oil any time soon. Technology will have advanced by the time this is even remotely close to the point where we will no longer need oil.

What it all boils down to: I hate the EPA and unnecessary and unconstituional governmental interference in my life.
 

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zoophagy said:


What it all boils down to: I hate the EPA and unnecessary and unconstituional governmental interference in my life.
lol, yeah I kinda figured that.... But I would have to argue that there is a large chance of running out of oil.... It is a LIMITED resource, and is the most consumed resource, (other than water) and is used in a lot more than just automobile gas... everything plastic that you see is also made with oil, etc, etc, etc,

I am not relating this directly to the actions of the EPA, but If no one makes an effort to be more enviornmentally conscious, we are F'ed. plain and simple.... People that dont want to make an effort to help keep the planet living efficiently, should just die and get the hell out of here.
at the risk of sounded like a b*tch, and a hippie: Earth is our home, where we live, and if it is not better taken care of, its not going to be around too long. (unless we just blow ourselves up first):eek:
There have been wide spead efforts to clean up and advance technology to better suit the enviornment... but when you dumbasses that oppose it for no good justifiable reason, its gets me mad

EDIT____ for the fact that in debate to what you said about People and Animals being the largest source of c02 in the air.... IF people actually gave more attention to the enviornment and didnt cut down millions of trees to over-industrialize, we would have this problem.



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Government regulations suck. However, the environment is shared by all, and since we've already seen people can't limit themselves, the government must step in.

CO2... we want to cut that down. More signficantly - CO, particulate matter, sulfur, etc. Who the hell said CO2 was the biggest concern? That's what clean vehicles produce. Perfect combustion is H2O and CO2.... it's the other junk that's the problem.

There is finite oil. As DTR said, we use oil for a lot of crap. All our fuels come from oil... and countless other products. You want to talk about a hyrogen fuel cell? Super - start with a hydrocarbon fuel to get the hydrogen. We can make ethanol from corn and methanol from wood.

I'm not a big fan of the EPA... but I do like the environment. Assuming we'll be ready to get off of oil when we need to is... ahh... well, I hope you're right, but I'm going to assume you just decided that because the alternative would be unthinkable.
 

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DTR rex said:
lol, yeah I kinda figured that.... But I would have to argue that there is a large chance of running out of oil.... It is a LIMITED resource, and is the most consumed resource, (other than water) and is used in a lot more than just automobile gas... everything plastic that you see is also made with oil, etc, etc, etc,

I am not relating this directly to the actions of the EPA, but If no one makes an effort to be more enviornmentally conscious, we are F'ed. plain and simple.... People that dont want to make an effort to help keep the planet living efficiently, should just die and get the hell out of here.
at the risk of sounded like a b*tch, and a hippie: Earth is our home, where we live, and if it is not better taken care of, its not going to be around too long. (unless we just blow ourselves up first):eek:
There have been wide spead efforts to clean up and advance technology to better suit the enviornment... but when you dumbasses that oppose it for no good justifiable reason, its gets me mad

EDIT____ for the fact that in debate to what you said about People and Animals being the largest source of c02 in the air.... IF people actually gave more attention to the enviornment and didnt cut down millions of trees to over-industrialize, we would have this problem.
Actually, oil is not a limited resource. It's a renewable resource. It's just that it takes so long to renew itself that once it's gone, it might as well be gone.

I stand by my statement that we are not going to run out of petroleum any time soon. I know it is used extensively, but there is a hell of a lot of it left. I mean, massive quantities.

I don't get the argument that the earth is not going to be okay if we don't do anything about it. I think it is somewhat egotistical to think that human beings are going to ruin the earth. I think if we were actively trying to ruin the earth we could, but our pollution isn't really that big of a deal.

I don't really want to argue about this too much, though, because it'll get political, and the thread will get locked.
 

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Zem said:
Government regulations suck. However, the environment is shared by all, and since we've already seen people can't limit themselves, the government must step in.
I thought you liked taking arguments to their logical extreme? I'd hate to see this one taken there.
 

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Zem said:
We can make ethanol from corn and methanol from wood.

we had an enviornmentalist lady come to my school and speak about how we need to start creating more things to be bio-degradable, due to the growing problem of having no-where to store the plannets garbabe everyday.
It was pretty interesting... She showed us several things made from a bio-degradable source that could significantly cut down on pollution and garbage in the enviornment. for instant, instead of bottles being made from plastic (which is made from oil) they are made by a solidified corn oil... works the same as plastic and is bio-degradable, not to mention stonger than plastic. there were several other things too... it was very cool



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zoophagy said:
Actually, oil is not a limited resource. It's a renewable resource. It's just that it takes so long to renew itself that once it's gone, it might as well be gone.

I stand by my statement that we are not going to run out of petroleum any time soon. I know it is used extensively, but there is a hell of a lot of it left. I mean, massive quantities.

I don't get the argument that the earth is not going to be okay if we don't do anything about it. I think it is somewhat egotistical to think that human beings are going to ruin the earth. I think if we were actively trying to ruin the earth we could, but our pollution isn't really that big of a deal.

I don't really want to argue about this too much, though, because it'll get political, and the thread will get locked.
but thats my point... even as a renewable resrource... there is no way that we can renew the substance at the rate we are using it.. it would require some incredible breakthrough in technology and an even larger envancement with funds..... something that I do not see happening....

Its not about the population... Its about peoples attitude. They dont care about enviornment. They dont care about ripping down a forest preserve if it means getting a new "convienent" store closer to them. They dont care about how much a limited resource is being over-used, until they themselves cant have it anymore.... people seem to have a hard time thinking ahead.

and the problem with petroleum is not only the fact that it is a limited resource that is going to become quite scarce in the next 100years because of the rate we use it... but its also on an economical level. As more and more gets used, the prices of it will go up... soon people will with money, or even countries for that matter will BUY BUY BUY from mass producers of the substance. Once people have it, they are not going to want to sell it, because they know that it will soon be gone... It will be a bidding war for the oil/petroleum and cause economic chaos. (now that is a bit of an extreme end, but it can and probably WILL happen eventually if something is not done NOW!) Right now, oil is used for profitability and will continue to be that way for some time... but eventually it wont be sold or bought for profitability, it will be bought by mass for survival.

how can you not get the argument? If something is not properly taken care of, it is going to slowly be destroyed. Its part of life. You dont take care of a house plant, what happens? you dont take care of a pet, what happens? You dont take care of a car, what happens?

We are not arguing. We are debating:) hopefully we can each learn something from each others opinions.



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DTR rex said:
but thats my point... even as a renewable resrource... there is no way that we can renew the substance at the rate we are using it.. it would require some incredible breakthrough in technology and an even larger envancement with funds..... something that I do not see happening....

Its not about the population... Its about peoples attitude. They dont care about enviornment. They dont care about ripping down a forest preserve if it means getting a new "convienent" store closer to them. They dont care about how much a limited resource is being over-used, until they themselves cant have it anymore.... people seem to have a hard time thinking ahead.

and the problem with petroleum is not only the fact that it is a limited resource that is going to become quite scarce in the next 100years because of the rate we use it... but its also on an economical level. As more and more gets used, the prices of it will go up... soon people will with money, or even countries for that matter will BUY BUY BUY from mass producers of the substance. Once people have it, they are not going to want to sell it, because they know that it will soon be gone... It will be a bidding war for the oil/petroleum and cause economic chaos. (now that is a bit of an extreme end, but it can and probably WILL happen eventually if something is not done NOW!) Right now, oil is used for profitability and will continue to be that way for some time... but eventually it wont be sold or bought for profitability, it will be bought by mass for survival.

how can you not get the argument? If something is not properly taken care of, it is going to slowly be destroyed. Its part of life. You dont take care of a house plant, what happens? you dont take care of a pet, what happens? You dont take care of a car, what happens?

We are not arguing. We are debating:) hopefully we can each learn something from each others opinions.
You are right that in the next hundred years oil will probably become scarcer and scarcer, and this will drive prices up. But this is exactly what will create a solution. I have absolute faith in capitalism. If fuel prices become too expensive, a company will design a new product that will become instantly successful because it will be cheaper, and therefore people will buy it. I honestly don't think there is anything to be worried about at all.

What I don't get about the argument is that people blow human's impact on the environment out of proportion. The earth isn't a house plant, a pet or a car. It can survive on its own, and it has done so for billions of years. We're just a flash in the pan. We are not going to destroy the earth.
 

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What solution will then become marketable? You have something in mind? You might be thinking a thing exists that does not.

The Earth will survive. We might not, but the Earth will. Do you find that acceptable?
 

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Atlas, Once again, I am convinced there is no way to change peoples minds. Chevy vs. Ford, Bush vs. Kerry, National Sales Tax vs. the IRS and National Income Tax, Subaru vs. Mitsubishi. Once people get an Idea in their heads there is very little changing them no matter how many ways you prove them incorrect. Left unchecked this argument will go on forever! So there's my 2 cents!
 

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Zem said:
What solution will then become marketable? You have something in mind? You might be thinking a thing exists that does not.
Yeah, you're right. I was thinking of magic. My bad.

There are no other options besides petroleum based products that could be used to power vehicles.

Zem said:
The Earth will survive. We might not, but the Earth will. Do you find that acceptable?
Yes. I'll be dead then, so I don't think I'll protest too much.

EDIT: Put your catalytic convertors back on if you care so much.
 
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