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Master Baiter
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
We don't have a water/methanol section like some other forums, and therefore, we don't see as many threads/posts about it. This is only a "work in progress" currently; I'll add more as I think of it. Any suggestions/comments are welcome.


What is water/methanol injection?

Water/methanol injection is a system that injects a fine mist of water, methanol, or a combination into the air/fuel mixture along the path to the combustion chamber, creating a chemical intercooling process. It does so because as the water evaporates, it dissipates heat. When methanol is used, it also provides some chemical intercooling, as well as a fuel octane increase. Utilizing water/meth injection not only gives you more power, but the increased octane and cooler charge provide a much higher threshold for detonation, meaning knock events are nearly a thing of the past.

Does water/meth injection require a tune?

Water should only cool the intake charge, but the use of methanol will affect AFRs. Regardless, if you're going to invest in this type of setup, retuning is needed.

Who would benefit from water/meth injection?

Everyone! With the chemical intercooling and octane increase, you can run more boost, more timing, and leaner AFRs, all which lead up to more power. You could easily run 1-2 more PSI, 2-3 degrees more timing, and .5 leaner AFRs, while having a "safer" tune. Power gains of 20whp/wtq aren't unheard of, even at StageII STi power levels.

Other than a water/meth injection kit, what should I have?

You will want some type of failsafe in case of an issue with the kit. Some kits include them, some don't; some manufacturers offer an optional failsafe you can purchase as well. Alternatively, you can just buy simple 3-port solenoid and fittings from Grainger to drop you to wastegate pressure in the event of system failure.

Also, you'll want quality gauges to monitor what's going on in the system; an inaccurate gauge is worse than no gauge at all. At a minimum, you'll want a boost, EGT, and WBO2 gauge.

Where do you buy methanol?

You can buy methanol from many places. A very popular methanol vendor is VP Racing. Some manufacturers sell bottles of pre-mixed fluid (e.g., Snow Performance's Boost Juice). Lastly, you can buy denatured alcohol at any home improvement store (e.g., Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.).

How much is this going to cost me?

This is quite dependent on your tune. On average, expect to get two or three full tanks of gas before having to refill the water/meth reservoir. It's also quite common to create a mixture (e.g., 50/50) of water/meth to help prolong the meth supply. If a gallon of meth/alcohol and a gallon of distilled water cost you $15 total, and lasts you 4-6 tanks of gas, you're really only spending about $.25/gallon (or less) extra for fuel in the 105+ octane level.

Who makes Subaru water/meth injection kits?

AEM
Aquamist
Coolingmist
DevilsOwn
Labonte Motorsports
Snow Performance

Of all the systems out there, how do I choose?

There are four styles of operation for water/meth injection kits:
  • Boost
  • MAF
  • IDC
  • Combination
Which kit you select should depend on the recommendation of your tuner, the features of the kit, and your budget.

For more information, the following write-ups of water/meth injection systems are quite good:
How to choose a WI kit - NASIOC
Indepth study of WAI injection systems -restart - NASIOC
 

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Moderator
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Very nice!! Definitely would make a good sticky! Just to add,to reap the real benefits you will need a custom tune. This tune would be for only when running the methonal/alky! Also some people have run HEET ,and believe it or not,no freeze windsheild wiper fluid for their "juice"! Lots of good kits out there! Some of the more popular manufactures:
AEM Water/Methanol Injection Kits - Water-Meth Injection for Turbo/Superchargers

Water injection : alcohol-methanol injection | DevilsOwn

Snow Performance: Home

Water injection systems, Methanol injection systems : Aquamist

A good link to help in choosing a system:
How to choose a WI kit - NASIOC
 

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we should do an E85 vs Meth injection thread to add to this

Good Job Matty-pants.
 

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Master Baiter
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Donkey said:
Just to add,to reap the real benefits you will need a custom tune.
D'oh! All that writing, and I didn't mention the tuning aspects :screwy:

I added all of the names I could think of at the moment.

Sinister said:
we should do an E85 vs Meth injection thread to add to this
I haven't done all that much research into E85, but I know you have. Do it up.
 

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I haven't done all that much research into E85, but I know you have. Do it up.
They seem fairly similar with a slight nod in power towards E85, but Methanol is corrosive, and E85 isn't... and E85's fuel availability can be an issue.
 

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so you would recomend putting a meth kit on even a stage 2 wrx?? i mean it sounds like a good idea but i have no experience with this at all...
 

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so you would recomend putting a meth kit on even a stage 2 wrx?? i mean it sounds like a good idea but i have no experience with this at all...
I wouldn't. Especially on a bugeye.
 

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ok, i was just looking around on here and saw that and was kinda intersted. i have heard of alot of people running them on like dsm's and hondas so wanted to ask some questions...
 

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In Memoriam
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As far as the tuning aspect, I ran my WRX at low-mid 12:1 AFR with up to 6 degrees more timing with the same pump gas boost pressure of 24psi with a gain of 20whp/15wtq. More torque could have been had if I'd increased the boost over pump gas.

One nice thing about Meth over E85, is that meth doesn't affect your mileage. Meth is corrosive however the only parts of the car it is touching is from the point forward from where it is injected; normally post-IC/pre-TB.

In my tuning experience, 50/50 was more 'forgiving' on the tune. Pure meth I could not get by with as lean AFRs I was running on 50/50(again no changes in boost). And overall the car didn't make as much power on pure meth, it might possibly had if I had changed boost.
 

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ok, i was just looking around on here and saw that and was kinda intersted. i have heard of alot of people running them on like dsm's and hondas so wanted to ask some questions...
torque breaks transmissions...any form of alcohol increases torque quite a bit. It'd give you more power, and put quite a bit of torque into your transmission... it's a risk thing... are you willing to risk the tranny to increase your power?
 

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Master Baiter
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Discussion Starter #11
testes1010 said:
As far as the tuning aspect, I ran my WRX at low-mid 12:1 AFR with up to 6 degrees more timing with the same pump gas boost pressure of 24psi with a gain of 20whp/15wtq. More torque could have been had if I'd increased the boost over pump gas.

One nice thing about Meth over E85, is that meth doesn't affect your mileage. Meth is corrosive however the only parts of the car it is touching is from the point forward from where it is injected; normally post-IC/pre-TB.

In my tuning experience, 50/50 was more 'forgiving' on the tune. Pure meth I could not get by with as lean AFRs I was running on 50/50(again no changes in boost). And overall the car didn't make as much power on pure meth, it might possibly had if I had changed boost.
I was hoping you'd find this thread and give input.

Thanks, as always!
 

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torque breaks transmissions...any form of alcohol increases torque quite a bit. It'd give you more power, and put quite a bit of torque into your transmission... it's a risk thing... are you willing to risk the tranny to increase your power?
and thats what i was looking for, i am always looking at different things that can be done to my car to achive better numbers...
 

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Props on the write ups. :thumbup: Now you just need to make one about noobs learning to use the search function.. although no one would find it. :rolleyes:
 

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Geriatric Ginger Mod
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I ran meth/h20 inj. (Aquamist) on my turbo civic hatch. 10psi, 50/50 water/washer fluid, bone stock B18C1 engine, GSR trans, fmic, t3/t04e 50 trim.
310whp @ 10psi. without the H2Omix, was 277whp. the aquamist, i had to tune for, severely, as it was set to come on at 5psi, which coincided with the vtec trigger point (5200rpm) and created a real rich lull in the plot. defueling the table (only had a .6mm nozzle for water/meth) in that 5000-5300 range fixed it, and allowed me to add more timing, as well. this was also at 12.5:1 AFRs.


great write-up matt, and thanks for stickying it, ron!
:tongue:
 

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I'm not much of a tuner, so my understanding is you can either do E85 or the water/meth injection. Is that right? Also, with E85 I've heard once you reach a certain point of tuning your car will no longer be flex fuel and you will need to have it programmed to run strictly E85 any truth to this??
 

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first question.. yes. Injecting meth into E85 isn't going to be beneficial. Both are alcohols. Methanol has more potential, but not enough to warrant a meth injection into E85.

You need to have a tune no matter how little or how much E85. I'd recommend to NEVER blend any fuels. Only E85 for your tune, or only gasoline. Study E85 up a bit, and you'll understand why. I personally am about to get an E85 tune, but I will have both an E85 and a gasoline tune. That way I can switch when I switch fuels.
 

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E85 is pretty much everywhere here in the Midwest, and I have ran it in a turbo setup before with a custom ecu map just for it that was on a switch based system encase I was unable to get it for a refill.

I never got knock out of it running 15 PSI of boost either.
 

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E85 is pretty much everywhere here in the Midwest, and I have ran it in a turbo setup before with a custom ecu map just for it that was on a switch based system encase I was unable to get it for a refill.

I never got knock out of it running 15 PSI of boost either.
Hi, if you plan to run that link in your signature, please contact Tim (BlazinWRX) for vendor requirements. Please remove the link until then
 

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Am looking at this as when i took my car into get a quote for my dwnpipe we got talking about the cobb air intake flutter....whisping in and out when on boost periodically...i was told the only way to get around the issue was to get a alchohol injection system(50/50 blue windshied washer fluid)....he said its the stock computer retuning the knock and adjusting the boost to compensate for the fuel detonation etc........even though its accessport tuned for the intake you can not get rid of the fludder....so am looking into this mod and wondering how many peeps are running it and any issues....he said it can be ran with 91 or 94 octane doesn't matter and will make the engine run cooler(of course because of the alchohol) and help the engine in the long run...anyone??

Thanks
 

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Master Baiter
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Discussion Starter #20
ruthie said:
Am looking at this as when i took my car into get a quote for my dwnpipe we got talking about the cobb air intake flutter....whisping in and out when on boost periodically...i was told the only way to get around the issue was to get a alchohol injection system(50/50 blue windshied washer fluid)....he said its the stock computer retuning the knock and adjusting the boost to compensate for the fuel detonation etc........even though its accessport tuned for the intake you can not get rid of the fludder....so am looking into this mod and wondering how many peeps are running it and any issues....he said it can be ran with 91 or 94 octane doesn't matter and will make the engine run cooler(of course because of the alchohol) and help the engine in the long run...anyone??

Thanks
That person is an idiot. WMI will do nothing towards wastegate flutter.
 
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