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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HERES SOME ANALYSIS

here;s the percentage of which brands leak the most based on how many are leaking out of the number bought from each brand.



ATR..............6..........1..........17%
Godspeed...25.........6..........24%
M2...............3..........1..........33%
Perrin..........5..........2..........40%
PDE.............6..........2..........33%
TurboXS......4..........0..........0%
Vishnu........13.........5..........38%
Other..........5..........2..........40%
JDM STi........3..........0..........0%
MRT Flex......2..........0..........0%

as a financial analyst, i would say the following

1) not all the same people voted in each poll. this is the case for a number of reasons, but most obviously, the lack or a "no leak" option on the leaking poll, and the similar counts in samples for each test.

2) all of the pipes with the supposed zero percentage leaking are too small a sample to support that figure. they could in fact be some of the worst, however, i don't think it's coincidence that NONE of the JDM or MRT have leaked. <opinion>

3) Vishnu and Godspeed are the only pipes with enough market share to make any assumptions. i would say that if Shiv's share was similar to Godspeeds, the number would fall closer to 25%.

i stand by the school of thought that all these polls prove is that 1/4 of all installs are done incorrectly, or that eventually, the vast majority of all pipes will leak, and it's just the timing of the leaking that we see here.

dR
 

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I split this post out and closed the polls. I may post some new and improved poll on this topic sometime along the format of:

- I have uppipe X and have experienced leaks which I resolved.
- I have uppipe X and have experienced leaks which I could not resolve.
- I have uppipe X and have never experienced leaks.

However, I think it is apparent from these last two polls that no single uppipe exhibits a stronger tendency for leaks than any other. Given the size of the samplings, the data for the Godspeed and Vishnu pipes probably most accurately reflect installation success with those pipes.

Like dR; this has only further reinforced my opinion that leaks are caused by installation problems due to the OE manifold tolerances and the overall design of the pre-turbo exhaust mounting and routing.

-Pace
 

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Re: HERES SOME ANALYSIS

dark_rex said:
i stand by the school of thought that all these polls prove is that 1/4 of all installs are done incorrectly, or that eventually, the vast majority of all pipes will leak, and it's just the timing of the leaking that we see here.

dR
I agree. Curry's auto has done a lot of installation in VA and man do they have NO CLUE what they are doing!!!! :mad:

I gotta get my tutorial up on my site!!

-Jim
 

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well, the TurboXS, MRT, and JDM uppipes are the only ones designed with "flexing" in mind. though there isnt a great number of owners with these better pipes, it is safe to assume by these polls AND by our knowledge that these 3 are in fact superior. By design alone, they prove to be the best. and to further prove this hypothesis, none of them have any problems with leaking!

M2 has 3 total and 1 leaked.
TurboXS 4 total and 0 leaks.
JDM 3 total and 0 leaks.
MRT 2 total and 0 leaks.

and so on and so on... how come the other have all leaked, even with a tiny sample? This poll seems to be adequate enough... it could be better, but it does prove my theory correct. If human error plays a roll, then is it safe to say that the ones with no leaks were installed with no errors? I know many use "goo X" to help seal the uppipes, but isnt a gasket supposed to be enough to seal it?

From my research I concluded that I would only get TurboXS, MRT, or JDM. The pipe NEEDS TO FLEX! They are the only ones that are designed with that in mind! This test only confirms that. ;)
 

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SonicYellowWRX said:
From my research I concluded that I would only get TurboXS, MRT, or JDM. The pipe NEEDS TO FLEX! They are the only ones that are designed with that in mind! This test only confirms that. ;)
Sonic,

I agree, but the MRT flex pipe will fail at the flex joint eventually (YEARS) The JDM pipe looks like the way to go. The TXS pipe is the same material with a larger diameter.

-Jim
 

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I personally think that the sampling for those four uppipes is too small to be of real value. Statistically speaking, the odds of you picking two or three Godspeed users (for example) who have had no problems is quite high.

-Pace
 

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Re: HERES SOME ANALYSIS

dark_rex said:
JDM STi........3..........0..........0%

i stand by the school of thought that all these polls prove is that 1/4 of all installs are done incorrectly, or that eventually, the vast majority of all pipes will leak, and it's just the timing of the leaking that we see here.

dR
Mark another 0 up on that JDM Uppipe Leak scale. I have not had any leak so far either.

Not only does the install have to be done correctly, but the flanges on some of these uppipes are warped or the surface is not flat at all, even by looking at from a side shot. A gasket is only going to seal if it has flat surfaces on both sides. If one flange is bent or doesn't have a flat surface, it will be prone to leaking. I think this is the main reason of these pipes leaking. No quality control in manufacturing these pipes. Chris from I-Speed and I were talking about this same issue. Check on I-club or it could have been here. There are several threads, can't remember the names, of side shots of the mating flange surface being put up to a known flat surface (being a bench) and the uppipes flange shows gaps all over the place. This is where all the leaks are coming from.

And that is why I chose to go with the JDM STI uppipe. Not only does it flex, its flanges are also completely flat and I assume they have some type of quality control at Subaru of Japan. And yes, there are different factors in every situation. Since these JDM uppipes come off of cars and already having been used once before, sure there are scenarios where the flanges of some JDM uppipes will not be flat and have a chance to leak. You can always have the flanges resurfaced at your local machine shop. If you can get your hands on a JDM uppipe, grab it. It is worth every penny if it doesn't end up leaking.

Kurlee Daddee
(THE ORIGINAL)
 

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PlatinumWRX said:


Sonic,

I agree, but the MRT flex pipe will fail at the flex joint eventually (YEARS) The JDM pipe looks like the way to go. The TXS pipe is the same material with a larger diameter.

-Jim

what makes you say it will fail???
they've been using flex joints on there exhausts for years.
 

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SobeWRX said:
what makes you say it will fail???
they've been using flex joints on there exhausts for years.
Read their website, they say it'll fail at the flex joint after a while. If it's not there now, it used to be. Even still, the flex joint is probably the second most reliable option, with OEM being the first.

-Jim
 

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IMO

I was just thinking...how many problems does it take for you to NOT get anything? If I eat at a restaurant, and I have the WET SHlTS, you can bet that I'm not eating there again! I mean, even if it was my fault for not washing my hands (I will never get to shake any of your hands now...). Sorry about the bad analogy, but if there's just ONE person with a leaky pipe, then it's not an option for me. I could get into worse analogies I guess, but I think it just depends on your individual tolerance. Like how many times will your girlfriend/wife have to cheat on ya before you replace her? Hehe...in the end, I think it's just go with what you are comfortable with. I'll go with the new JDM up-pipe, it even has a bung-hole....hahahaha, bung-hole :rolleyes: ...that still cracks me up!

B
 

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Well, my point is that I don't believe that any of the uppipes are more prone to leak than any others.

I'll wager that somebody, somewhere, within the next six months will experience a leak with the JDM uppipe. Will it then drop from your list of candidate uppipes? Look at the total number of users reporting ownership of this pipe. The reason you haven't heard about failures is because there aren't many of these units out in USDM circulation yet, and fewer still that are owned by ClubWRX members.

I purchased a PDE uppipe, because at the time there were zero reported leaks. Guess what? I was the first, and my buddy was the second AFAIK to have problems with this pipe. At the time I believed that the individual uppipes were responsible for the leaks. I did not stop to consider that I was one of the first PDE owners and that there were very few in circulation. Ditto when I owned a Godspeed uppipe. I had one from the first production batch I believe, and at that time there were a number of Vishnu users who were experiencing installation-related problems.

I seem to recall that someone already reported that the JDM uppipe was too short and necessitated removal of the turbocharger brackets during installation.

Time will tell.

-Pace
 

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Good point Pace!

I agree with you. I guess no matter what route I take, someone will be there with a "I told ya so!". By the way, at which end does it leak? If it's at the back, has someone tried to weld a downpipe and an upipe together? Or come produce one single pipe that integrates both center exhaust pipes? Just a thought..

B
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
SonicYellowWRX said:
well, the TurboXS, MRT, and JDM uppipes are the only ones designed with "flexing" in mind. though there isnt a great number of owners with these better pipes, it is safe to assume by these polls AND by our knowledge that these 3 are in fact superior. By design alone, they prove to be the best. and to further prove this hypothesis, none of them have any problems with leaking!

M2 has 3 total and 1 leaked.
TurboXS 4 total and 0 leaks.
JDM 3 total and 0 leaks.
MRT 2 total and 0 leaks.

and so on and so on... how come the other have all leaked, even with a tiny sample? This poll seems to be adequate enough... it could be better, but it does prove my theory correct.
according to basic statistics, you cannot make a founded assumption based on such as small sample.

my opinion is the same, however, how would you explain MRT taking the flex off the market? i heard it was structural failure in the flex portion. my point is, just becasue it's a flex pipe like the OE doesn't make it fool proof. in theory? maybe, in reality, absolutely not. just becasue none of them are leaking here, doesn't mean they aren't leaking elsewhere. remember you're only looking at less than 10% of the total votes here. that means there is not assumption that can be statistically founded here.


SonicYellowWRX said:

From my research I concluded that I would only get TurboXS, MRT, or JDM. The pipe NEEDS TO FLEX! They are the only ones that are designed with that in mind! This test only confirms that. ;)

what research have you done? have you installed all three yourself? THAT would be the only research i would give any credit to. make the installation a constant in the experiment, then the pipe will become the variable. THEN you can attribute leaking to te product, not the install to a greater extent.

dR
 

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dark_rex said:
my opinion is the same, however, how would you explain MRT taking the flex off the market? i heard it was structural failure in the flex portion. my point is, just becasue it's a flex pipe like the OE doesn't make it fool proof. in theory? maybe, in reality, absolutely not. just becasue none of them are leaking here, doesn't mean they aren't leaking elsewhere. remember you're only looking at less than 10% of the total votes here. that means there is not assumption that can be statistically founded here.
I hate so say I........t..o..l..d....y..o..u....s...o..... [The Hives]

-Jim
 

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just because an uppipe is a flex pipe doesn't mean it won't leak, but this poll seems to indicate that it has a better chance of not leaking.

Thanks to who ever started this research it has helped to confirm my future choice of uppipe.
 

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I have to admit I was one of those who said flex joints were not needed. BUT, in my own defense that response was related to those who said the up pipes would crack due to the heating cycle.

My PDE up pipe went in great and I followed all the rules. At 10k miles it developed a leak!!! Oh well. When investigated it was due to the now infamous problem of the up pipe/manifold joint.

So you can add one more to the poll.

My solution? Lossen lower bolts, remove turbo mount bracket bolts, remove DOWN pipe mount bolt, tighten lower bolts, shim turbo bracket, tighten turbo bracket bolts and reinstall down pipe mount bolt (if it fits). Works so far, but only 2k miles

For those who mfg the solid up pipes, why not include a spring type attachment for the turbo bracket. Like the spring bolts that GM uses for exhaust to manifold connections. This would allow movement but keep the major strain off the pipes.

If I were to do it again. Probably the same just due to price. For a trouble free (those with more money) STi pipe.
 

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ive heard great things of the Perrin Subaru uppipe as well......i think the leaks are definitely HUMAN error...cheap and /or poor installation makes a HUGE difference!!!! just my .o2!!!!
 

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I sell quite a few of the godspeed uppipes and have found this, there are manufacturing problems with their pipes, ocasionally the flanges when subjected to the intense heat of the TIG welder tend to warp at their thin parts, and bow out toward the bolt holes. GOD HIMSELF told me these issues had been resolved, I was a little disturbed at his soloution of "just bend them straight" (bend a 3/8" thick stainless plate?) I can say the last batch had no returns for leaking, just my personal complaint for flanges not being deburred. (I cut myself good on one) however I can say God is good, he is willing to take any failed pipes in exchange for a new one. but I have a box where they are collecting.

Jeff
 
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