JimmyNY said:Can the cams on the WRX somehow be optimized for torque? Are they already at the best they can be? How would I upgrade them?
I'm sorry but how the hell did you come to that conclusion/assumption? I hadn't noticed that you tried various regrinds or have adv cam gears dyno tuned. you can't just post what you think would happen.PlatinumWRX said:
The cams can not be adjusted to any performance benefit in the WRX or atleast the little tiny amount of performance achieved wouldn't be worth the time, trouble, and expense.
Yes, I agree, by adjusting the cam timing, you can optimize for more horsepower, more torque, or a compromise between both.TypeC said:
I'm sorry but how the hell did you come to that conclusion/assumption? I hadn't noticed that you tried various regrinds or have adv cam gears dyno tuned. you can't just post what you think would happen.
There are several companies working on adj cam gears right now which usually make GOOD power on turbo cars, just like new cams do. I think the real answer, is no one has done any extensive test (or released it) yet, so we don't know.
I wouldn't say that at all. I wouldn't try to tune it myself, although I'd do what you said and tune the intake cams the same and the same with the exhaust cams (so there is only two degrees not four). As you know from Hondas, just a little tweaking (retard exhaust, etc) can make very GOOD gains across the board. Since companies are already making them, it's already going to be "real world applicable." Instead of getting a bigger turbo for instance, you could squeeze another 20whp out of the stocker and finally run 12's.God said:I think cam timing can be beneficial as evidenced by the cam gears on the exhaust side of Supra TT's and Hondas but on a 4 cam motor like the EJ20, it is pretty tricky to tune since you have to tune each intake or exhaust camshaft exactly equal on both sides. I don't think the trouble of tuning it on the dyno and installing them is worth it though since there are so many ways to extract the max power out of the car without this modification. No matter what the block is only good to just over 400 HP so unless you're building a 600 HP monster (in which case you're probably using larger cams), I say drop this discussion and put it in the "interesting as a topic but not real world applicable" pile.
God said:Weather here is nice. I've just been working so many hours I have no time to do anything at all. On top of that I got a puppy so spare time goes to him. It'll be summer sometime before I can get to the track.
Nice to see some Engineering Humility. I've called God many times (the real one), and he has told me that when it comes to Mr. Murphy when he pisses on my parade, I'm on my own to solve itYou see gentlemen, when I need somebody who we all know knows what he is talking about, I call God, since I already know that I know what I am talking about.
...a good moderator will read for complete context, and will figure out that the attributions got screwed up before slamming the wrong guy.For future reference...
Agreed. Here, the question was on changing the existing timing. The basic answer is that there's better bangs-for-the-buck.JimmyNY asked a few simple yes or no questions...
Compared to...? Looks like its merely 2/3rds of the engine in my '85 911 , and not substantially any different from the boxer 4 that was under the hood of my 1971 Subaru (Model "FF-1G").The flat-four is a whole different animal than an I4, I6, or V6.
I agree, and this is really the crux of the question here. Generally speaking, the "low hanging fruit" (here, the easy horsepower and torque gains to be had) have already been exploited by most manufacturers for most contemporary vehicles. For a fixed cam system, you should be able to tweak it for more HP, but you'll lose torque, or some other desirable characteristic (such as life). Its a multivariate trade-off and the manufactuer has chosen what he thinks is the best overall compromise. Again generally speaking, its not a good idea for most people to question their choice.Add to this the fact that Subaru does an EXCELLENT job setting up the cam timing from the factory...
No problem Jim. German Shepherd. Only kind of dog I buy ever.PlatinumWRX said:Congrats on the puppy! What breed? Thanks for your prompt attention in this matter.
Jim, you're putting words in my mouth here.I'm curious, tan. How exactly can you optimize the WRX cams to behave like the computer-controlled variable valve timing? Obviously the STi CVVT which boost torque across the powerband and raises (along with other contributing components) the rev limit of the EJ20 to 8,000rpm
My turn to put words in your mouth here.Add to this the fact that Subaru does an EXCELLENT job setting up the cam timing from the factory and you arrive at the "conclusion" NOT "assumption," Type C, that cam timing is not worth the time, trouble, and expense involved.
I do and you, my conceded friend, are DEFINATELY NOT one of them. Please don't pretend to be. Up to this point I've kept my mouth shut, but quite frankly you don't know what you're talking about 80% of the time. The Nitrous thread, PT/FB, launch techniques (after you were running 2.0's mind you), now this. You really make yourself sound silly when you pull things out of the *air*.I don't understand how you can consider adjusting the valve timing for what will be WAY less than 20HP, when you can spend half the time and trouble installing breathing and/or fuel mods on your EJ20. Listen to the experts, they know the EJ20, really THEY DO!
??? Your considerably knowledge? I also have an Engineering degree. Woohoo! Can I toot my own horn now? Also, Dan is a very good guy with lots of good info, but (as he has said himself), he is NOT a tuner, and IS also new to the WRX as are we all. He makes good parts, but isn't the de facto source of knowledge (And an important thing to note, he, unlike you, doesn't try to act as if he is). It's called humility.You see gentlemen, when I need somebody who we all know knows what he is talking about, I call God, since I already know that I know what I am talking about.
For future reference, if I write something that sounds like an interpretation of a fact or set of facts, or even a fact then IT IS. JimmyNY asked a few simple yes or no questions and I answered them to the best of my (considerable) knowledge.
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