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Discussion Starter #1
This thread kind of goes along with Integra96's eariler thread about 04 wagon spring options.

Now we know that eibach will not be making a wagon specific spring for MY04 (I actually spoke to the eibach rep whose 04 wagon was a test mule for the 04 sedan springs).

Anyway, what would be the lesser of the two evils as far as the pro-kit springs are concerned?

Would you be better off getting the 04 sedan spring and use a setup that didn't intend to have the 80 extra lbs in the rear?

or

Get the 02-03 wagon springs and swap out the top hats, which apparently aren't as well designed as the 04s?
 

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I'd just do the Eibach '04 springs because it would be cheaper than having to buy the top hats. The Eibach guy said its OK, but I'd still like to hear more positive responses from people running this setup. In my mind, the extra 80 lbs. is not a big deal, but who knows?
 

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the rep at eibach I got a hold of said he had been running the 04 sedan springs on his wagon for 2 months without problem. He said it lowered the car about even (1 inch or so front and rear).

Basically he said when the wrx was coming to the states, eibach rushed r&d to develop sedan and wagon applications. In hindsight, seeing as how the difference in weight is so neglible, it wasn't worth the time and money for eibach to make a brand new spring for the 04 wagon.

I mean a sedan with a couple of subs and an amp in the trunk would get about the same weight I suppose. Oh and BTW, he said if you did happen to see a different part number for the wagon in a few months time, it would be the same exact spring as the sedan, just packaged for the wagon.
 

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I'm beginining to rethink this whole sedan/wagon spring deal. I was of the mind that springs were springs (as long as the appropriate strut was used). Now I'm having second thought, not likley the 80 lbs (besides all 80 wouldn't be on the rear), but could possibly due to free length of the springs.

Couple of case studies- v7 gdb vs ggb, different struts (we know this), but the springs (rears anyways) are different part#'s- yet the same rates- 188/173????

Case #2- the v7 STi pinks, not sedan or wagon specific- advertiesed drop 20mm front/rear. Most sedan owners report pretty close to this drop f/r. Several wagon owners running this setup report a near perfect 20mm drop in the front, but almost 2.5 times the drop in the rear! Reports of 45-48mm drops in the rear!
55-60 lbs (even the full 80) aren't going to cause these differences. A difference in free length would though. It would appear the wagon needs longer springs.

This may not apply to all springs, but I didn't think this was coincidence.

Thus my decision to go w/ the GGB setup (springs/struts) even though I'm swapping out rear tops (I'd have to purchase tops regardless as I always run the Group N ones).

Just some food for thought.

Big Sky
 

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Interesting points...

If I could be assured of a 1" max drop in the rear, I'd go with the Eibachs - because I'm not worried about the fronts.

Any hard data on stock free spring lengths between wagon and sedan? That would clear up a lot of questions.
 

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That would be good to know. The only free lengths I've been able to dig up are the RA springs (sedan) 270mm front/ 300 rear and the SPT Eibach's which list 253 and 308 w/ advertised lowering 1.4" front/1.2" rear- you can see the effect of spring rates and progressive vs linear in these specs. It's apples and oranges- what would be useful is oem free lengths- I'll dig.

Big Sky
 

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There are a boatload of people on this board that have changed their springs, both sedan and wagon. I am sure some of those people still have their old springs hanging around. Maybe a few of those people will be kind enough to run out to the garage and measure their rear springs unloaded height off the car. A few sedan measurements and a few wagon measurements would take into account variations in measuring accuracy and possible spring droop from various lengths of usage.

-the_bear
 

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for those who spoke with people at eibach, did they say anything about increased spring rates for '04s? it's possible that they increased spring rates to take advantage of the stiffer '04 struts thus making the 80lbs in the rear not such a big issue.
 

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Big Sky WRX said:

Couple of case studies- v7 gdb vs ggb, different struts (we know this), but the springs (rears anyways) are different part#'s- yet the same rates- 188/173????

Big Sky
I can say that when I had V7 gdb springs on my wagon I saw a much more significant drop in the rear...something never made sense to me about 80 lbs. making such a noticeable difference. The frustrating thing is that by limiting yourself to just Wagon-specific springs, you cut down your choices by so much. It would be really tough to quantify, but I wonder how much you give up in performance, if any, by having an uneven drop, with the rear lower.

I think I still have my stock springs around, I'll go measure those tonight.
 

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I did a search on nabisco and lot's of discussionabout free length- but nobody measured it:rolleyes:

The other thought I just had was the struts, I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the struts were identical length- no I'm not 100% on that. I know they diifer where they go onto the knuckle to account for the track difference- now I'm not sure on strut length and I guess more importantly spring perch to top length.

There has to be a reason (at least for some springs) that wagons are getting a heck of a lot more drop in the rear.

I aggree the GG specific stuff is very limiting- which plain sucks (now that I have a GG;) ).

Another random thought, many moons ago when I had the DMS 40's, DMS came out w/ an "adapter" for the rear top as I believe they simply tried to originally fit the GC setups into the gd/gg's and found out it didn't work. My point is some kind of "adapter" for the rear struts/tops for the wagon to alleviate too much of a drop in the rear?

Big Sky
 

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An adapter is something I've thought about quite a bit actually. I would think a simple machined piece of aluminum would work to essentially lower the mounting point. Basically a mount that you'd bolt to where the regular top mount would go, then have mouting holes for the top mount. Probably have to cut down the studs on the top mount to have it all fit together properly though. I think thats a pretty feasible solution if I had access to a bridgeport to play with...considering camber plates add 3/4" in some cases, adding the distance w/ an adapter would be essentially the same thing.

Before I dropped in the V8 sedan setup I have now, I was looking for any camber plates that would work in the rear for V8 springs, but unfortunately all the rear ones I found were much like the fronts, in that they require a spring perch to be used.
 

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An adapter would certainly open up a lot of options- your correct- it would be no different than a camber (or camber/caster) plate taking up "space".

Here's measurements from the v7 GGB rev A:

front spring free length- 275mm- these are the same springs as the GDB rev A- exactly (as are the front struts!)- this would explain experiencing no problems in the front w/ resultant ride height

rear spring free length-300mm, these are different part#'s than the rear GDB, different paint codes as well

Also strut length rear (fronts are the same as sedan) total length 665mm, from bottom to spring perch (right in the middle of the weld) 285mm

Big Sky
 

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Big Sky WRX said:
front spring free length- 275mm- these are the same springs as the GDB rev A- exactly (as are the front struts!)
Are you sure the front struts are the same? There was definitely a physical difference with the lower mounting "ears" between the GDB rev B struts and the GGB rev A struts when I compared the two. I didn't compare the springs, but they did have the same paint code on them.
 

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driggity said:
Are you sure the front struts are the same? There was definitely a physical difference with the lower mounting "ears" between the GDB rev B struts and the GGB rev A struts when I compared the two. I didn't compare the springs, but they did have the same paint code on them.
No I'm wrong- I must have been a little crossed eyed looking at this thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=361244&highlight=strut+part+numbers

The struts are indeede different part#'s, the springs are however the same.

Mike
 
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