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Discussion Starter #1
hated the hill holder clutch. It strikes me as odd that nobody has mentioned that clutch gimic that has test driven one. I found no way to defeat the feature, even turning off the vdc. I must say it is a shock to drive if you are used to a real clutch operation on hills. I think this feature is a big negative and pray the STI, if it has this feature, has a defeat mode. Big thumbs down for hill holder clutch. The service rep said everyone loved it on the older models and he thinks it will be a big plus for sales. One more way subaru is killing a great car in my opinion.
 

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So what exactly didn't you like about it? You don't really say what is wrong with it...just that it sucks. Some more info please.
 

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I'm considering getting an 08 WRX wagon. What is the hill holder clutch?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
when sitting facing up hill, you take your foot off the brake and rapdily apply gas and release clutch pedal in a normal set up. With hill holder, you take your foot off the brake and the brakes stay holding the car for about 3 to 4 seconds as you do a normal clutch release and normal gas apply as if sitting on the level. It is very tuff to work with this having driven clutch vehicle for 20 plus years. Basically there is no drift back in this car at all. After gaining knowledge on how fast a clutch release and how much gas to apply for the hill I am on over the years, I find it very tuff to work this hill holder set up and frankly don't care for it. It will be great for clutch newbs, but again, one more thing to dumb down the WRX experience. They need a defeat button for this. If you can't drive a clucth and fear drift back, find another car.
 

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The hill holder applies the rear brakes momentarily to give you a little time to get off the clutch. It surprised me at first but after two days I got used to it. You have to be completely stopped, your foot firmly on the brake, and you have to be on an incline. It's a pretty common feature in Europe, specially on upscale vehicles. Not sure what's bad about it, unless you like to roll back on hills for some reason. I'm pretty neutral about it. Certainly would not have stopped me from buying the 08. TReeREx, I find your reasoning a bit odd considering you have driven clutch vehicles for 20 years. I've been driving just as long, even driven old beaters with three speed shifters on the column, double clutchers, straight-job trucks, and all kinds of underpowered econoboxes overseas. The bright side has been lots of Porsches, BMWs, and the like. I've got no beef with adding something that will make driving a little easier for new drivers and I got used to in a couple of days. I like the avatar, I might do that next halloween on my 08.
 

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Hmmm. As a user of the "e-brake release" method on steep hill starts, I can see where this would be useful. In my mind, if you just mentally swap the hill holder function for the manual release of the e-brake, sounds like a pretty good deal.

Maybe it's a trust factor? Sounds like you would slip the clutch a lot less when starting on a hill with this thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yep, another electronic nanny to "help" me drive. Just what I want in a performance car, not. Had VDC and electronic help in my Nissan Titan and hated the overides of what I wanted to do when off-roading. Give me a defeat button for ihill holder please. This may keep me from buying the 08 STI. I agree that I may get used to it.
 

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I drove an older GL with the hill holder years back. I found it quite annoying after driving manual for so many years. I live in an area with very steep hills and grades. I was immediately forced to learn how to quickly operate a clutch on a steep hill when I started driving.

If you learn the hard way, and get used to it, you will never need the ebrake or a hill holder.
 

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if you do not like it, don't park on hills. that would be the easiest fix for your problem.
 

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This is a good thing, IMO. Because A/Ts are so common, people don't realize that not everyone has one (and M/Ts will roll back on an incline). At stop signs, many times I have someone creep up to the point where I can't even see the front of their hood (their headlights are completely out of view). On a hill, this is a little intimidating, because if you happen to roll back into them, you're at fault. I, like YBNormal07, have used the e-brake method, and something like this could only be a good thing. If something helps you maintain better control of your car, how is that bad?
 

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Hmm interesting. So it only activates at a complete stop, with brake, on an incline? Only steep slopes or any slope? I can't imagine it being a major sale deciding factor for me if I get one, the percentage of time spent accelerating from a stand still on a hill has to be like .01% or something. Personally, the idea seems like a good one, but I still havn't taken one out for even a test drive yet.
 

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I don't even see the need for a hill holder. On my sti if I just release the clutch to the point right before it stalls it will hold me steady on the hill until I get to the gas.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hey trainrex, thanks for helping out here.

Since I live in Western Pennsylvania, hills are all you get. I learned to drive with them and have conquered the fear of drift back. By the way, on my test drive alone, greater that 50% of the stops I encountered involved hill holder clutch engagement as it is really tuff to route a way to go here without a hill.

I brought up this point originally because I have read of all these test drives while lurking and found it odd that nobody encountered this. Even the extensive car mag writeups do not mention it. Makes me wonder if they even drive them, but that is another topic.

Other than the clutch issue, I thought the car was very solid, well crafted, had an "upscale" feeling and would be a purchase as hatch or sedan. Just can't get over that hill holder thing. If they would just make a way to defeat it I would be ok. Perhaps Cobb or someone else will develop something to by pass it.

Speaking from experience with overburdoning electronic controls as mentioned in a previous post, I think the "drivers" out there will not like brake activated limited slip diff. In my Titan it would grab, spin, grab, spin alternating side to side, not something you want to crawl up a slippery hill with a bit of side slope. On hard launches in snow it would do the peg leg.
 

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Blue_Genes said:
Yea? I guess I should go practice more hills then. This is my first stick and i don't want to screw it up. What is the ebrake method? Is that harmful in any way?
On a hill, fully engage the e-brake. When you take your foot off the brake, your car will not roll backwards. Then, when you can feel the clutch engage and the engine want to go, release the e-brake (just make sure you don't have it revved up too high) ;)

I was lucky - my driveway is fairly long with a steep incline, so I just practiced there when I learned to drive a manual :)
 

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I can only imagine a huge annoyance with this feature. So you just are supposed to wait around until you rear brake disengages? Sounds like an experienced hill driver would be pitting clutch vs brakes because that is for ever. Even if you do the ebrake thing (which I don't unless traction is an issue), at least you decide when it goes off.
 

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On a hill, fully engage the e-brake. When you take your foot off the brake, your car will not roll backwards. Then, when you can feel the clutch engage and the engine want to go, release the e-brake (just make sure you don't have it revved up too high) ;)

I was lucky - my driveway is fairly long with a steep incline, so I just practiced there when I learned to drive a manual :)

Thanks a lot for your help! I have a pretty steep driveway myself and I'll have to try this.
 
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