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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...chnology:homepage/card&utm_term=.843f349c734c

The important characteristics: 0-60 in 5.6 s, range of 215 miles.

It's hard to tell how attractive it is from the pictures--seems kinda generic sedan-y to me. Actually a bit like the WRX and Mazda sedans, though the WRX has more edges and contrast and is sportier.

I have always liked the Model S styling, but not the Model X--really ugly SUV IMO.

I could use the Model 3 for work around town, but not for out of town trips. I am often an early adopter, but I think I'll wait on this.
 

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I'm about done with internal combustion engines. My hope is that once my current vehicles go on to that large car park in the sky, I'll be able to switch entirely to something that does not use an internal combustion motor and does not burn petrol.

I'd be in for something like this, yes.

Now, back to our "in-family" problems, Subaru's approach to eliminating the internal combustion engine has been borderline moronic so far (they've done next to nothing and in fact instead of getting rid of the internal combustion engine, the idiots actually offered... larger internal combustion engines in the WRX a decade ago, go figure). Maybe I won't have to buy a Tesla if Subaru wake up.

I doubt they'll wake up though.
 

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i do want an electric car for sure, but the tech just isnt quite there yet for my personal desires. assuming they are keeping their promise of 35,000$, 5.6 0-60 just dosent cut it for me. it will likely be enough for most people tho and i can only see this car being a huge success.
 

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While that is a good range, as it the Bolt's, you start out on a trip with a full charge, going 75 miles somewhere (plenty of reserve range). You get there and get a call from a member of your family that X is in the hospital with an appendicitis. But you do not have the range to get to where you are going directly, but need to go home (the wrong direction to the hospital), to get your other combustion fired vehicle (if you have a second car). Or rent a car, etc. I am not ready to make the change yet, but not ruling it out down the road.

As for the Tesla 3, the front end looks like an alien. Complete turn off to me. Though the rest of the car IMO, is good looking.
 

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The 0-60 times are nice, I'm more interested in highway passing. The 40-80 range.

I would buy one, 200 miles would last me forever.

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I want (& have wanted for a while) a Model S, P100D. I hate having to go to the gas station all the time; it's a wast of my time. I'd much prefer plugging in in my own garage overnight. And the quickness of the P100D should suffice I think :)
 

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The only problems with the car is the range. If I wanted to do a long road trip to say a town 365 miles from here I wouldn't make it and there are no charging stations from here to there. The other issue is in some places electric is more than fuel (like in my state) so there really isn't a point of going electric. Also the Battery life in the cold, Sure they have said it has good battery life in the cold but I'm talking Alaskan winter cold. Also curious of how well it holds a charge even when it sits for long periods of time. I can see it being a hot ticket item for people in warm places that don't go on road trips and the electric is less than fuel.
 

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I presume it will not be long at all before the range issue is solved. Personally, I wouldn't buy one. But that is based on nothing other than personal preference. They are quite practical for your daily around the city needs so long as you don't need to travel more than 150 miles in a day. Which most people don't anyway. I'm really curious to see a study where someone has analyzed the cost per mile of electricity used to charge these against the average cost per mile of an internal combustion car of similar practicality. If anyone has anything on this, I would love to read.
 

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I presume it will not be long at all before the range issue is solved. Personally, I wouldn't buy one. But that is based on nothing other than personal preference. They are quite practical for your daily around the city needs so long as you don't need to travel more than 150 miles in a day. Which most people don't anyway. I'm really curious to see a study where someone has analyzed the cost per mile of electricity used to charge these against the average cost per mile of an internal combustion car of similar practicality. If anyone has anything on this, I would love to read.
There are massive limitations to energy storage I don't know that we will ever see pure electric vehicles with ranges that truly compete with some of our dino burning vehicles.

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There are massive limitations to energy storage I don't know that we will ever see pure electric vehicles with ranges that truly compete with some of our dino burning vehicles.

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For now. Elon Musk is getting things accomplished that would take others decades to do....
 

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Well the P100D can do 337 miles on one charge which is very competitive with current fuel vehicles(but then again its a over 100,000$ car). But yeah Billy I'm curious too to see the comparison of E/F. The savings per day probably aren't worth the inconvenience of everything that goes with a electric car but that's my opinion.
 

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For now. Elon Musk is getting things accomplished that would take others decades to do....
There would need to be an unprecedented discovery in energy storage that from what I've seen isn't likely to happen outside of nuclear options.

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I still have no interest in owning an electric car for my personal daily. The range would be a factor, for reasons someone stated about needing to go >200 miles, with no guarantee of a charging station. Once you've had kids, you realize just how chaotic and un-plannable your daily needs for transportation can be.

And I truly love the sounds, feels, smells of my IC sports car. I like a stick shift and a clutch pedal.
Hello, my name is Ray, and I am a dinosaur. :wiggles:
 

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I like what I see out of the Model 3 / S, but wouldn't want one as a sole method of transportation. Like Ray, I like driving a car with three pedals, and to really make use of it, I would need to have other forms of sustainable energy in place that I cannot afford at this time.

If I could afford the house with a geothermal HVAC system, and enough solar panels / batteries to cover the electricity needs of both the house and vehicle, I would probably consider it. At that point, I would also probably have enough money to own a few other vehicles in the fleet to which I could selectively drive whatever I needed at the time. I could have a Model S for main commuter, a truck for ******* / homeowner stuff, and a M/T fun car.
 

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I made a Model 3 thread over a year ago when it was first unveiled: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/new-cars-prototypes-forums/134533450-tesla-model-3-a.html
Maybe merge threads?

While that is a good range, as it the Bolt's, you start out on a trip with a full charge, going 75 miles somewhere (plenty of reserve range). You get there and get a call from a member of your family that X is in the hospital with an appendicitis. But you do not have the range to get to where you are going directly, but need to go home (the wrong direction to the hospital), to get your other combustion fired vehicle (if you have a second car). Or rent a car, etc. I am not ready to make the change yet, but not ruling it out down the road.

As for the Tesla 3, the front end looks like an alien. Complete turn off to me. Though the rest of the car IMO, is good looking.
I live in Oregon - one of the EV hotspots - and there are charging stations everywhere, including my workplace parking lot. DC fast charging (basically the generic "superchargers" that Leafs, i3s, Bolts, etc can use for an 80% charge in 20 minutes) is widespread, so I'm never more than a few minutes from a top off if I need one. Currently, this is highly regionally dependent, but charging station numbers continue to grow across the US.

Also note that the picture you showed is the pre-Alpha prototype. Here's what the actual production car looks like, and it's a bit more sleek with an improved front end design:


There would need to be an unprecedented discovery in energy storage that from what I've seen isn't likely to happen outside of nuclear options.

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Hmm, I don't think that's true at all. Battery technology has had exponential growth in the last ten years, and how much range do you really need? Storage isn't the issue at all, refill time is the challenge: My Outback manages about 290-ish miles to a tank of gas in the mixed driving I do with it. I typically fill it up every two weeks in about 10 minutes at a gas station for about $40.

Now a 75kWh battery pack in a Model S gives it a 259mile range, a 30 mile difference, and every EV owner I know tops off the charge overnight when they go home, giving them a full battery pack when they set off the next morning. I only have to drive 250+ miles in a day maybe once or twice a year at most. So for commuting, it's a total non-issue, the battery capacity is plenty and I never have to stop at a fuel station. 600V DC fast charging is coming very soon (Audi and Porsche are pushing this tech), so then you'll be able to fully charge a 300+ mile EV in just a couple of minutes.

I'd argue the range of a vehicle by itself is meaningless, the TRAVEL TIME is what's actually important, and the only differing times for fossil fuel and EVs are refueling times, since things like breaks and traffic are the same for both vehicles. For example, say you need to make a 500mile trip, and your car gets 300miles to a tank of gas. That means a 15minute fuel up somewhere along the way. Now say you have a 150 mile EV, but that you can fast charge in 5 minutes. That's 3 recharges in 15minutes, so your overall travel time is the same, assuming the charging infrastructure is in place to make that trip (and I readily concede it isn't in a lot of places quite yet).

I know we aren't quite there yet with full proliferation of fast charging, and that even fast charging isn't quite that fast yet, but infrastructure and charge speeds don't require a quantum leap in technology to figure out, and Tesla isn't the only EV manufacturer putting more charging stations out there.

The bottom line is, if an EV has equivalent range to your gas car (and I'm taking 300miles as an average here), and can "refuel" just as quickly (getting close), how is that a bad thing?
 

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I'm excited for my Model 3, which I reserved on Day 1, before the car was even unveiled. I'm absolutely a Tesla fanboy, but I don't think they are going to be perfect for everyone. I'm keeping my Outback for mountain trips and exceptionally long roadtrips, but currently, the farthest trip I make in a day is about 170miles each way to my parents' house (where I can recharge afterwards, and there are Superchargers along the route), so Tesla has ample range for any road trip I need to take.

Beyond that, I'd prefer to fly if possible, or just take my Outback if necessary, but again, I haven't had to make such a trip in the last 7 years.
 

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Rambo said:
I live in Oregon - one of the EV hotspots - and there are charging stations everywhere, including my workplace parking lot. DC fast charging (basically the generic "superchargers" that Leafs, i3s, Bolts, etc can use for an 80% charge in 20 minutes) is widespread, so I'm never more than a few minutes from a top off if I need one. Currently, this is highly regionally dependent, but charging station numbers continue to grow across the US.
Charging stations are the issue. Tesla Superchargers:


I live in the red circle. I have one within an hour of my house, the rest of which are 90-120 minutes away.

From a quick browse online, there are five more non-Tesla DC fast charging stations within that two-hour range.

Rambo said:
I'm excited for my Model 3, which I reserved on Day 1, before the car was even unveiled. I'm absolutely a Tesla fanboy, but I don't think they are going to be perfect for everyone. I'm keeping my Outback for mountain trips and exceptionally long roadtrips, but currently, the farthest trip I make in a day is about 170miles each way to my parents' house (where I can recharge afterwards, and there are Superchargers along the route), so Tesla has ample range for any road trip I need to take.

Beyond that, I'd prefer to fly if possible, or just take my Outback if necessary, but again, I haven't had to make such a trip in the last 7 years.
You're a perfect candidate for the Model3. I hope you enjoy it, and genuinely look forward to your initial / long-term reviews.
 

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It's very realistic. The issue that comes into play is the higher capacity the larger the battery. Eventually they get so big it's counter productive. They also only take a charge so fast, a lithium battery like the standard today will only charge safely at a certain rate a larger capacity battery will charge faster technically because you can dump more amperage into it, however it takes just as long to charge to full as a smaller capacity battery because it's larger. Fast charging only works to a certain percentage of the battery then it has to default to a lower rate to finish the charge. Cellphones, radio controlled vehicles, and other electronics have been using this method for quite a while and it has its draw backs. Excess heat, and on lithium a genuine change of cell venting. The problem compounds greatly the more cells are added to the system.

There are energy storage solutions that have better energy density than current batteries, the problem is they don't scale up well. So by the time they have the size and wh to support a full size vehicle they are less energy dense than current batteries.

The real solution is charging availability equaling that of gas station availability. If the situation was switched and gas stations were as few as charging stations and you had cars getting 250-300 miles a tank you would have the same problems.

Electric vehicles are the way to go for the future. The transmission argument baffles me, you can absolutely use a run of the mill manual or automatic transmission with an electric motor. However you will miss a lot of the characteristics of gasoline engines like the surge of power from a turbo, sound, smell, etc.

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XJman said:
The transmission argument baffles me, you can absolutely use a run of the mill manual or automatic transmission with an electric motor.
Manual transmissions are a dying breed in ICE vehicles. People who are buying EV automobiles aren't typically the automotive enthusiast that longs for a traditional 3-pedal setup. Limited demand means it's not worth the R&D investment to make that option available. I don't see M/T ever really catching on in the EV market.
 

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It's very realistic. The issue that comes into play is the higher capacity the larger the battery. Eventually they get so big it's counter productive. They also only take a charge so fast, a lithium battery like the standard today will only charge safely at a certain rate a larger capacity battery will charge faster technically because you can dump more amperage into it, however it takes just as long to charge to full as a smaller capacity battery because it's larger. Fast charging only works to a certain percentage of the battery then it has to default to a lower rate to finish the charge. Cellphones, radio controlled vehicles, and other electronics have been using this method for quite a while and it has its draw backs. Excess heat, and on lithium a genuine change of cell venting. The problem compounds greatly the more cells are added to the system.

There are energy storage solutions that have better energy density than current batteries, the problem is they don't scale up well. So by the time they have the size and wh to support a full size vehicle they are less energy dense than current batteries.

The real solution is charging availability equaling that of gas station availability. If the situation was switched and gas stations were as few as charging stations and you had cars getting 250-300 miles a tank you would have the same problems.

Electric vehicles are the way to go for the future. The transmission argument baffles me, you can absolutely use a run of the mill manual or automatic transmission with an electric motor. However you will miss a lot of the characteristics of gasoline engines like the surge of power from a turbo, sound, smell, etc.

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witch is why tesla liquid cools their battery packs. LI-ion batteries are getting better but somewhat slowly.

ive heard of a graphene battery that charges instantly, i wonder what kind of interface could take that kind of load when scaled up to a car hmm?

the charging needs to be much faster too, filling my tank takes a couple minutes, even "fast" charging the comparatively small leaf battery takes 20 mins. its an order of magnitude difference.

yes i agree, car engines/motors are just spinning a shaft. your transmission does not care what is spinning it as long as its spinning.
 
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