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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well, I met this guy in one of the Camaro forums and he only lives about 10 min away and he hangs out often with some racers I know. A few of us met up at "the spot" and I asked what kind of mods he had and what he usually ran. He had exhaust, intake, cam, a set of ported stock heads, an airlid and a sticky set of drag radials. He said his last dyno was 475 hp and 436 ft-lb of torque and apparently he runs 12.1 quarters without breaking a sweat :eek3: He said he has even dipped into the high 11's a few times, ya, I knew I was screwed. He was very cool and it was just a race for fun so I thought, what the hell.

Lined up and we were off. He immediatley put a length on me, we hit 2nd right at the same time and he pulled even harder and gained another half length. Into 3rd and I couldnt gain any ground at all and he actually pulled a bit more. 4th was the same and I was still about 2 lengths back when we hit the quarter marker. His little timer read 12.0 @ 119 :eek: so he figured I must have come in right around 12.8 or so.

Dammit, I knew I should have went for a used Z28 :mad: he said the magazine times you see with SS's running 13.7 is BS. He consistently ran a 13.1 with only a catback exhaust and the drag radials then just by adding the airlid, he was running high 12's. He told me you can pretty much throw the hp right out the window and focus on torque because that is what gets your car moving, especially at lower speeds and in V8's. Anyone want to take over payments on my Roush? :p
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well #1 I dont have the Evo anymore and #2 with those drag radials, he would stick to the road about as good as any AWD around.
 

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Go sell that roush. Get your evo back. I have heard of evo's running 11.6 on stock turbo. It seems like you are very concerned with 1/4 times, if so you should have just picked up an 03 cobra and put a full exhaust, pulley, and chip. With a setup costing about 2k you could easily get over 470 at the wheels. That Z28 would have been toast. I still think you should get the evo back, put some cams in it, AEM standalone, all the supporting mods and you could probably reach close to 400 at the wheels with the stocker.

-BobbyD
 

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Discussion Starter #5
My Evo was heavily modded. I had close to 350 hp and a bit over 300 ft-lb of torque. My Evo would have been no match for that SS, I would have been slaughtered by at least 4 lengths. The Roush can still be made faster but it does have its limits because it is a 4.6L Mustang GT engine and I can modd till it blows up but it still can't match the output of an LS1. The Cobra engine probably could match the LS1 with enough money but this guy I raced is ready to go up to about 500 rwhp...and thats not even using a supercharger yet :eek3:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Correction: I was just talking to this guy online and his SS puts down 475 hp to the wheels :eek3: not 405, so I corrected it above. I thought that was very odd that the torque was higher then the hp, he said its impossible in fact and I must have heard him wrong. Now I dont feel so bad, that extra 70 hp made all the difference right? :p
 

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Nice loss. Always gonna be someone faster, that's for sure. Anyways, did he say it was impossible for the torque to be higher than the horsepower? May want to tell that to those who have diesels. He is absolutely correct in his recommendation to build for torque, as this is what an engine produces.

Got any pics of that mustang of yours? I wouldn't mind having a gander at it.
 

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Evo VIII, you still have a lot left in that Mustang. An intercooler and a good tune can put you at or near 450 rwhp. In my GT, when I was at 420 rwhp, I was running 11.6-11.7 at 120+ on a good day, and 11.8-11.9 at 118 in the middle of summer. I'm at 455 rwhp now, but haven't been at the track yet.

A good tuner is the key, i.e., someone who know how to get the power, and still keep it safe. I've been running over 420 whp for over 2 years and 50 passes down the track, without any issues.
 

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EVOVIII said:
#2 with those drag radials, he would stick to the road about as good as any AWD around.
I hope you're not talking about in the rain...especially if its something like the BFG drag radials which have a solid strip of no tread down the middle...those things are instant death in the wet weather.
 

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BobbyD said:
It seems like you are very concerned with 1/4 times, if so you should have just picked up an 03 cobra and put a full exhaust, pulley, and chip. With a setup costing about 2k you could easily get over 470 at the wheels.
:thumbup:
 

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I dunno if he was telling the truth about the whole 13.7 v 13.1 thing. keep in mind how big of a difference drag radials are going to help out a RWD V8. I've seen many stock LS1's running 13.5's 13.6's around here. Who knows though right?
 

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SERacing said:
I hope you're not talking about in the rain...especially if its something like the BFG drag radials which have a solid strip of no tread down the middle...those things are instant death in the wet weather.


Anyone that makes the arguement that drag radials are as good as AWD only cares about racing at a prepped track.

This is coming from a former Stage 2 Head/Cam LS1 z28 owner. I ran drag radial. Yes, they can get you some fast 60' times at the track. But on the street they do nothing at all for you when its cool and damp outside. (like early in the morning, or in the winter)

I can't tell you how many races I lost because of traction issues. I stopped trying to race people, unless my tires were heated up and the streets were warm.

I could break my tires loose on the highway at 70mph when it was rainy. I didn't mean to, it would just happen. Very scary.

So drag radials don't make a car awd. The actually provide bad performance characteristics in most conditions.


But to get back to the discussion. I would take an EVO over an LS1 any day of the week.
 

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SGOSWRX said:
Anyone that makes the arguement that drag radials are as good as AWD only cares about racing at a prepped track.

This is coming from a former Stage 2 Head/Cam LS1 z28 owner. I ran drag radial. Yes, they can get you some fast 60' times at the track. But on the street they do nothing at all for you when its cool and damp outside. (like early in the morning, or in the winter)

I have seen alot of high powered RWD cars hooking up on the street with drag radials. That was allowing that they got the chance to heat them up though.
 

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Neversatisfied said:
I have seen alot of high powered RWD cars hooking up on the street with drag radials. That was allowing that they got the chance to heat them up though.
My problem was usually when I pulled up at a stop light at 9am in the morning (tires cold) and a Mustang GT (Yes GT) would pull up next to me. He would rev at me and I knew I had to either go for it or just pass on the race.
I usually tried to leave the line easy and then get on it but (sometime that didn't even work with me getting sideways and out of shape) but usually that gave the other car a good jump and I would have to catch them. I actually got beat by some "slow cars" in stop light to stop light encounters. Very very frustration when your driving a 400 rwhp LS1 and you get beat by a stock GT in a stop light encounter. (that will definately not happen in my STi)

What I liked best about my Modded LS1 was racing on the highway or from a roll at higher speeds 80mph+. Thats where it was at its best (like and STi from a dig). I smoked some seriously fast cars and Bikes at 100+mph. The car just hauled ass on the top end. But it was frustrating on the street from a dig.
 

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Not a bad death, it could have been worse. A buddy of mine has a 2001 SS with exhaust,intake,a cam and header set,airlid and some Nitto drag radials and he makes 525 whp and about 475 in torque. He can run low 11's like nothing with that beast and thats not even fully modded. The 4th gen LS1 engines are serious killers when fully modded and if you put a S/C on top of it, there are very few cars that can even hang with you.

The Cobra has a ton of potential but it is only 4.6L as opposed to the LS1's 5.7L so the LS1 will breathe much better and can be made faster then a modded Cobra anyday. The Cobra only puts out 375 whp WITH a S/C, the LS1 will put out more than that with only a cam and an airlid, there is really no comparison, its one of the best engines ever built. Unless some turbo and modded out car is carrying a huge shot of nitrous, a heavily modded Supra or Z06 would be your only real challenges.
 

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My bro has a 02 M6 Z28 Full bolt on and he is dynoed in at 345 whp and since then he added a pully and thermosat which should at least be 350 whp. A 02 z28 bolt on is will probably beat a Stcok Roush. They trap at 110-114 mph

And btw if anyone didnt know there is a big difference between a 98-00 and 01-02 LS1 the 01-02 LS1's have the z06 intake and at first me and my brother didnt think it made a difference untill i spoke to someone who had a 98 z28 full bolt on and his friend had a 02 z28 and they do pulls all they time and they are even everytime. Thats says something i guess.

Soo EvoVIII get a 02 z28 (you can pick one up with low miles for 19k) and bolt ons (another 2-3k) and you will be just as fast or even faster then the roush.
 

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1) drag radials are only good in track prepped situations. someones exhaust shoots out condensation and your spinning through 3 gears, lol.

2) he ran a 13.1 WITH RADIALS!!!! this makes a HUGE difference on a car with that much torque that is RWD. radial can make a half second difference on a car like that. most ls1 drivers will get mid 13's with a well driven M6. the ones that get low 13's have been driving the cars for years and know how to use the power most effectively.
if he ran 13.1 with radials, that means without them in complete stock form he would have been good for a 13.4-13.7

3) there will always be someone faster... you cant run around trying to be the fastest car... IT WONT WORK the more you think like that, the more your pride gets hurt when you lose.

4) should have bought a cobra... i know the roush is rare and all, but the 03+ cobra is better in every other way and has more potential.
cobra with $500 in pulley, exhaust and you would have run right next to that SS



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Theres a Pinto wagon that runs 9's at the local raceway here. You could buy that and be pimp :)
 

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DTR rex said:
1) drag radials are only good in track prepped situations. someones exhaust shoots out condensation and your spinning through 3 gears, lol.

2) he ran a 13.1 WITH RADIALS!!!! this makes a HUGE difference on a car with that much torque that is RWD. radial can make a half second difference on a car like that. most ls1 drivers will get mid 13's with a well driven M6. the ones that get low 13's have been driving the cars for years and know how to use the power most effectively.
if he ran 13.1 with radials, that means without them in complete stock form he would have been good for a 13.4-13.7

3) there will always be someone faster... you cant run around trying to be the fastest car... IT WONT WORK the more you think like that, the more your pride gets hurt when you lose.

4) should have bought a cobra... i know the roush is rare and all, but the 03+ cobra is better in every other way and has more potential.
cobra with $500 in pulley, exhaust and you would have run right next to that SS

+drag...


All of our tires are Radials...

I bet I'm one of the few here that owns a car that came with bias ply tires, and still has one of them :eek:

Ive seen 01-02 SS's run 13.1-13.3 completely stock. Just like there are 12.9 second STi's in stock form.


Like someone said earlier... tell the diesel owners that its impossible to have more torque than HP...

One of my cars has 260 (gross) hp and 385 (gross) ft/lbs of torque, and the engine that is going in it has ...

517ft/lbs of torque and 476hp...


Better to be killed by a built Ls1 than a stock v6 mustang :thumbup:
 
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