ClubWRX Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
312 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys.. So I meet this really cool guy at Sunoco tonight with a silver STi. It was soo funny becuase we almost had the Indentical set up except that I have ECUTEK... which is suppose to add like a extra 30 whp?? anyways.. His set up - 3" exhaust 3" downpipe and intake and Hks BOV My Set up- 3'" exhaust 3" downpipe ECUTEK and a Hks bov. I put my snow tires on already he still has his stocks on.. so we went from a roll.. I pulled 1 1/2 cars everytime?? I don't get it.. so we got back to a spot and swaped cars for a QUICK boost. ( I know I can't believe I let a stranger drive my STi but he was cool) we go again and I pulled 1 car on my Sti. ok... so I have a problem with this How can I loose? I called my tuner he said he has to check my car or the guy lied and has some ecu tuning I don't know can anyone ?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
312 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
I wanted to mention

That when I drove his car it felt like he had less Turbo lag I dunno what that can mean.. all I know is that something doesn't make sense... snow tires shouldn't be a factor when you are already in motion and I dynod my car at 270ish at wheels. Do you think his exhaust , downpipe , Intake and Bov can make that much power too? I need to check to make sure my ecutek hasnt been reflashed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Since you beat him the first time in your car, is suspect the error in your car losing the second race was not in the engine but between the wheel and the seat.

-J
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
312 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
sorry..

i menat he pulled 1/ 12 car every time 1st time and when we switched I pulled in his car.. sorry about that
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
That's one reason I don't like the EcuTek rule of selling tuning equipment only to shops. I don't blindly trust any shop's tuning. Just sell me the damn software and let me do what I want to my car.

I love my EcuTek logger and they obviously know a lot about Subaru ECUs. I don't know why they're interested in maintaining a "tuning monopoly", forcing everyone to pony up $1k just for the privledge of then paying $300+ for each subsequent reflash.

If you've got the same hardware and his car is faster, it's obviously due to the tuning, or the lack of in this case. If you weren't at the mercy of some "blackbox tuning", you could see what needed tweaking.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
312 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Right..

So what do u reccomend? According to ecutek I should have 30 hp at wheels extra than this guy when really... I was just as fast or abit slower than him with his Bolt - ons?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
I know, trade me your sti for my stage 2 Subbie so you can just be slow and its normal :wiggles:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
312 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Hmm...

Well about 3 -4 months ago I dynod 180 at wheels. and if ddi feel faster back t han but as time went by It felt slower and I just thaught that I was getting use to the speed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
John M said:
That's one reason I don't like the EcuTek rule of selling tuning equipment only to shops. I don't blindly trust any shop's tuning. Just sell me the damn software and let me do what I want to my car.

I love my EcuTek logger and they obviously know a lot about Subaru ECUs. I don't know why they're interested in maintaining a "tuning monopoly", forcing everyone to pony up $1k just for the privledge of then paying $300+ for each subsequent reflash.

If you've got the same hardware and his car is faster, it's obviously due to the tuning, or the lack of in this case. If you weren't at the mercy of some "blackbox tuning", you could see what needed tweaking.
John, same situation exists irregardless of which reflash technology you use.

Ecutek maintains their hold on their reflashing for one reason. To ensure the success of the technology. By having only dedicated tuners carrying out the tuning, they can ensure that they don't have a similar problem as TurboXS has with many UTEC users who don't know what they are doing blowing their engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
fourstardrift said:
It could be that the EcuTek is not tuned right. Just a guess, the ECU has detected somethings wrong and pulled timing?
i would agree with this..

I have noticed also that depending on whether conditions, you will be down on power, but that is all done to keep the engine running safely, and not on the edge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
jigga said:
John, same situation exists irregardless of which reflash technology you use.

Ecutek maintains their hold on their reflashing for one reason. To ensure the success of the technology. By having only dedicated tuners carrying out the tuning, they can ensure that they don't have a similar problem as TurboXS has with many UTEC users who don't know what they are doing blowing their engines.
But people could blow their engine with a $300 AFC, or the Greddy E-manage, or any number of standalones that cost roughly what the ability to flash your own would cost. I didn't mean to single out EcuTek - like you said, all the flash-capable tuners want it done at "an authorized dealer".

I live in a small town so it would mean several hours' drive to a tuner, who may or may not give me a good and/or safe tune. I really don't want a tune all that different from stock; I just want to be able to correct for injectors, change rev/speed limiter, and little things like that. If something happens, I want to know I'm responsible for it.

The fact that some people have blown an engine with the UTEC doesn't impact its sales, does it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
John M said:
I live in a small town so it would mean several hours' drive to a tuner, who may or may not give me a good and/or safe tune. I really don't want a tune all that different from stock; I just want to be able to correct for injectors, change rev/speed limiter, and little things like that. If something happens, I want to know I'm responsible for it.
I live in a small town also, and have to drive 4 hours for tuning. IMO, the point of getting a good tune is that of not only getting good power, but also not having to cross the " If something happens, I want to know I'm responsible for it" bridge soon after you get the tune. When tuned on a dyno, you can see what kind of gains or lossed have been made. As far as getting a good tuner, that is where reputation comes into play. Most people already know that if you go to Nathan at TurboXS for a tune, you are going to one of the best, who has intimate knowlege about the ins and outs of the utec solution.

John M said:
The fact that some people have blown an engine with the UTEC doesn't impact its sales, does it?
As far as UTEC sales, what you really want to do is to think about 'how' it is that they appear to sell so well. That can really be chalked down to the fact that TurboXS has a much bigger presence in the market place than Ecutek and Cobb tuning put together. Since they make parts for Evo's, Subaru's, Dodge's etc etc, they are better known in the marketplace. This is what helps the sales of their products, not the fact that they are outright "better" than everything else, but because they are better known out there.

Another aspect about UTEC that makes it very popular would be that it offers the user the opportunity to tune, change maps, bla bla bla. Like whp and torque, "more is better", and the more aspects that can be tweeked, the more attractive it appears to potential buyers looking for an ecu solution.

Most buyers who look for management don't want to plunk the money down on something that runs invisibly in the background... they want the geek factor of being able to hook up to the ECU and change whatever they want..

Since most people don't live near a dyno or a tuner, or want to save money by doing the work themselves, the UTEC is the only option for them, since they can do the tuning work themselves. I suspect that these reasons, along with TurboXS' reputation is what drives the sales of the UTEC.

There was a thread started on Nasioc a while ago where those who popped their engines listed their setups and what not. Not suprisingly, most of the users had a UTEC. This is NOT because of a flaw with UTEC though, since it is only as good as the tuner behind the keyboard suprising either.

TurboXS most likely has a larger market share of the engine mangement market for the UTEC than ECUTEK and Cobb have for theirs (those who mod their cars are more likely to be more mechanically/technically enclined, and thus, want a utec). Statistically, they were probably bound to have the most users on the forum, but also have the most users with problems.

To this ( a thread started in NASIOC where all those who blew their engines listed their setups), Vishnu chipped in saying that this meant that the ecu tunes were too aggressive. In other words, a lot of the people who have them are not using them properly.

There really is no substitute for the experience of a good tuner. Whether it is with ECutek or Utec or Link or whatever, the many years of tuning expereince that a good tuner possesses is a great asset. I started out racing the little gas powered RC models, and can tune a 2 stroke engine in my sleep now. This was not the case when I started out in the hobby though, when I destroyed quite a few engines while I leaned what works and what doesn't...Back then, new engines could be had for 150 bux, so it did not cost too much to learn what to do, and what not to do.. The same thing can't be said for the engine in my car though.

If you are knowlegable in ecu tuning though, then more power to you :) I know that I wouldn't mind switching over to a utec if TurboXS brought out some kind of tuning course on video that tells you what you need to know, how far to push, why everything is the way it is, and all that stuff...This would definitely help lessen the learning curve associated with tuning your own car.

sorry for such a long-winded post.. I don't have anything against utec. Variety makes the world an interesting place to be. I just hope that those who get it can get someone with tuning experience to tune it for them, thats all. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
SuperSuby.... Or is it TailSpin.. ;)

I am thinking that the STi you raced had a few more mods than he was letting on. :wiggles: .
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,368 Posts
jigga, statistics have a flaw, and you may have stumbled into one of them. So a lot of people with blown engines have utecs? Why do you think they have utecs? Perhaps because they're running something besides a VF34 and NEED a utec because there are no default maps out there. Yes, they could have gotten something else tuned, but huge turbo/fmic setups don't have many options, so.... well, there 'ya go.

Also, TurboXS was big and selling UTECs for the WRX well before they sold UTECs for other cars.

Anyways, yes, tuning a UTEC isn't something that should be done by someone who doesn't know what they're doing, but there are base maps out there. And "geek factor", yes, but... flashing lights for knock is awesome. Logging to find the problem is awesome, and amazingly useful.

As far as why a tuned car is running less than it's ECU brother... well, you could have a hardware problem (compression test?).... it could be that he does have less lag, depends on how your car was tuned. You may be tuned for off boost performance, or you can be tuned for faster spool... but they're kinda mutually exclusive. You could have been sitting on a bad tank of gas and the ecu pulled timing (which we'd know with a utec! :) ), could be the 4 bodies in your trunk weighing you down....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
Zem said:
jigga, statistics have a flaw, and you may have stumbled into one of them. So a lot of people with blown engines have utecs? Why do you think they have utecs? Perhaps because they're running something besides a VF34 and NEED a utec because there are no default maps out there. Yes, they could have gotten something else tuned, but huge turbo/fmic setups don't have many options, so.... well, there 'ya go.

Also, TurboXS was big and selling UTECs for the WRX well before they sold UTECs for other cars.

Zem,

I think I aluded to the fact that since TurboXS sells a lot more Utecs than ECUtek or Cobb sell reflashes, anytime there are problems, utec owners would come up more often. As I said, nothing to do with utec itself, but more that there are more people using them than anything else. More of those with aftermarket ecu solutions run a UTEC.

I also mentioned that those without tuners nearby, potential buyers such as John have utec as the only other option, since it is something they can adjust themselves.

I also mentioned in my post that turboxs have a much bigger market presence than ecutek and cobb put together, and that would definitely play into why it is that utecs are selling so well as JohnM stated earlier. I know that turboXS was huge before the utecs came out for the other cars, but WRXen were not the only cars that could use the other excellent parts that they sell, such as their MBC, HPMBC, blow off valves, and other parts. These are pretty universal parts for turbo cars in general, which is how their name has really gotten out there to the masses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
I've been racing imports for 12+ years, up until now having only Mitsubishis. While I wouldn't trust myself to sit down and write a fuel map from scratch, I wouldn't have any problem with adding or subtracting a little fuel or timing in a given spot after reviewing the logs. I know when to quit; after all, it's my $30k investment on the line if I screwed up.

The single factor keeping me from a UTEC is the reported on/off you can feel when the stock ECU gets taken over by the UTEC. I want a stock-like feel to the acceleration, especially at part throttle.

I'd probably buy Vishnu's XEDE if there's ever a version for the Legacy. It would give me enough control that I would be confident of achieving the tuning I wanted and would justify my $1k purchase price. A dyno tune is great but a backroad & datalogging will do just as well. I'd still prefer flashing the stock ECU directly because it's seamless, and knowing it *can* be done but we're not *allowed* to do it is the frustrating part.

I'm keeping an eye on my tuning options. I'll soon be doing at least a Green & all the supporting mods and will need something at that point. I'm just bringing the DSM "cheap bastard" style of tuning to the Subaru community..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
John M said:
I've been racing imports for 12+ years, up until now having only Mitsubishis. While I wouldn't trust myself to sit down and write a fuel map from scratch, I wouldn't have any problem with adding or subtracting a little fuel or timing in a given spot after reviewing the logs. I know when to quit; after all, it's my $30k investment on the line if I screwed up.

The single factor keeping me from a UTEC is the reported on/off you can feel when the stock ECU gets taken over by the UTEC. I want a stock-like feel to the acceleration, especially at part throttle.

I'd probably buy Vishnu's XEDE if there's ever a version for the Legacy. It would give me enough control that I would be confident of achieving the tuning I wanted and would justify my $1k purchase price. A dyno tune is great but a backroad & datalogging will do just as well. I'd still prefer flashing the stock ECU directly because it's seamless, and knowing it *can* be done but we're not *allowed* to do it is the frustrating part.

I'm keeping an eye on my tuning options. I'll soon be doing at least a Green & all the supporting mods and will need something at that point. I'm just bringing the DSM "cheap bastard" style of tuning to the Subaru community..
ahhh...I was not aware of your experience with the dsm's and the like. I appologise for making an assumption on your knowlege with racing and tuning these cars.

Have you given any thought to the Hydra EM system? Seems that quite a few people are jumping on this, and report even sharper-than-stock throttle response.

Then there is the AEM too... but those are all standalones, and not exactly cheap... :confused1 Unfortunately, nothing seems to be "cheap" in the Suby world....:(
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top