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copied from a buddy of mine from supra forums... Id hate to see any of you guys get burned, so here's your heads up!



So, I guess I will just start at the beginning. Vegasse (Co-Owner aka Todd Thrun) of Insane Speed had a nice mini tubbed supra roller up for sale here on supraforums. I really liked the car so I contacted him and asked if he would be interested in trading for my 1993.5 TTT 6spd with 67K miles on it for his roller pretty much straight up.



He said he would trade me only if I would allow Insane Speed to build the car for me. I told him I'm ok with that but my budget for the build was about $20K. He said that should be do able. Then a couple weeks later Todd asked if I'd be willing to go up to $25k I told him only if I can have the following parts:

New RPS CC Clutch

New V160 Trans

New Motor w/ Crower H-Beams & CP Pistons

New Head w/ Crower Everything

New Precision 6765 turbo kit

HKS Ti Exhaust used is fine

Greddy 3 Row used is fine



Those are the main items that I told him from the beginning I was not willing to budge on. He told me ok that's fine and that he could do the build for that price.



I then asked for a full invoice for the total bill that I would get from them so I could see everything in writing and have some type of legal documentation.



Todd then emailed me the invoices. I live in Hawaii so at this point I called my bank and had them cut me a check for $42K since everything looked good. I mailed it to Todd and he sent me back $15K to cover the payoff on my Supra I traded him.



That leaves Insane Speed with $27K I owed Todd $2K for the difference for the value of his roller which I purchased for $25K and my Trade car that he gave me $23K for.

So now they have their $25K for parts/labor. So we should be good to go.



So I pay to have my car shipped to Insane Speed from Hawaii. They received my car and then shipped me the title to the mini tubbed supra so I could give it to my bank. After that was done I sent them my title.



THIS WAS MY BIGGEST MISTAKE I HAVE EVER MADE!



After that everything goes downhill. Todd starts telling me oh we need more money for this part and that part and we forgot about this and that and so on. Needless to say after everything panned out they wanted $36K from me. After I only agreed to spend $25K with them.



I told them I'm only a SSgt in the Air Force and I already gave them all the money I have. They start trying to strong arm me into using cheaper used parts, and even with those parts the build is still WAY OVER BUDGET. By about $7K



That is with a Used BOV, Motor, Head, Wastegate, Exhaust, and Trans.



That is just ridiculous in my eyes so I told them no way. Just give me back my money and you can keep all your used parts. I will have someone else build the car for me.



Keep in mind that I paid them IN FULL back in February and it is now the end of September and my car is still sitting in their shop not assembled.



They keep trying to say well you changed your parts or added things or blah blah blah. I never once changed my mind about anything. Todd just kept strong arming me into changing the parts since he was so over budget. His anthem the past 6 months is "well we can't finish your car unless you give us XXX amount of money". I'd then tell them well I can't give you any more money and they would say well how about if we change this minor part out or do it this way and you can still make it work. Things finally got so bad that I told them I'm sick of this crap and I want to part ways. Give me back my money and I'll take the car elsewhere. You can keep all the used parts you've been trying to pawn off on me. None of which I ever agreed to buy or ever said I wanted.



So, then they said well we might have a buyer for the roller if you wanna sell it. I said sure I’m ready for this ordeal to be over with. I told them the only issue is that I still owe the bank $37K. So even if someone is willing to buy the roller for $25K that I paid for it I'll still need $12K just to pay off the loan and get someone else the title.



Brett the ACTUAL owner said well we still haven't picked up your used transmission yet (Which I never said I wanted) so we can give you a check for $4,200 and we can sell a couple of your parts for you and send you the money. I said ok great I'll try to come up with the other $8K so I can sell the roller and worry about the rest of the parts later.



That was a couple of weeks ago. I've been trying to get a hold of Brett or Todd since last week to find out where this check is at? Did they send it or not?



Today Brett answered his phone and said "I'm not sending you any checks". He also said that he needs more time to come up with the $4K... He never bought me a Transmission so he should already have the $4K. He also told me that he has sold several of my parts but he is not willing to send me any money yet...?



He then started yelling at me and called me a Liar and said that he never said he would send me any money. So after he hung up on me I forwarded him the email were TODD STATED "I WILL CUT YOU A CHECK NEXT WEEK". He of course has not replied. The last thing that he told me was "ALL YOUR **** WILL BE SITTING AT THE BACK DOOR COME GET IT OUT OF MY SHOP".



THANK GOD for Virtual Works Racing I called them today and they said they will pick up my car and all the parts tomorrow afternoon for me and try to help me out.



Please everyone, do not do business with these people. Brett has yelled at me several times over the phone (as if he is the one that has been getting the run around for 8 months and is going to lose THOUSNANDS OF DOLLARS) and Todd... Well Google Todd Thrun and his reputation speaks for itself.



They have gone too far this time and if they won't make things right they will have to deal with the consequences. I am in the Air Force and get FREE legal counsel so it won't be a big deal for me to go that route. With all of the emails that I have going back and forth I have a hard time believing a judge wouldn't be able to see what is happening here.
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I feel bad for him, but to some extent it is his own fault for being naive. People trust strangers waaaaaay too much these days. They send somebody out of state $25k, hope for the best, and then are surprised when they get ripped off. When it comes to a deal like this, it needs to be done in person, or not at all.
 

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Agreed. A hard lesson, if it went down that way.
OTOH, it would be interesting to hear the shop's point of view. We don't live in a black and white world. :)
 

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We don't live in a black and white world. :)
We used to until 1953. All you have to do is watch old TV shows. The decisions were easier back then.

What color suit should I wear today, black or white? What color car should I get, black or white? See? Much easier!
 

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It also seems like he may be trying to talk with a few different people at one shop too...that tends to get things messed up...its always best to only deal with the same person if possible when doing things over such a distance...
 

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I feel bad for him, but to some extent it is his own fault for being naive. People trust strangers waaaaaay too much these days. They send somebody out of state $25k, hope for the best, and then are surprised when they get ripped off. When it comes to a deal like this, it needs to be done in person, or not at all.
I wouldn't say it is his fault in any way, shape, or form. True it probably isn't the best idea to just straight up send the money, title, and car to them and hope for the best (especially without a legal contract of some sort) but I wouldn't say that makes any of it his fault. Just an error in judgement that got him screwed over.
 

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We used to until 1953. All you have to do is watch old TV shows. The decisions were easier back then.

What color suit should I wear today, black or white? What color car should I get, black or white? See? Much easier!
:rotfl:
 

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I wouldn't say it is his fault in any way, shape, or form.
Just an error in judgement that got him screwed over.
That's just semantics. Fault and error in judgement have the same result in this case. Sending a car, title, and 25k to someone whom you've never met is incredibly stupid. A fool and his money are soon parted.

There seems to be a lot of this going around lately. Are these kids brought up without any common sense?
 

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The shop knew exactly what they are doing. Back and forth email banter is not a contract.. That shop basically was just handed 25k a supra and a rolling chassis they already owned.
 

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I wouldn't say it is his fault in any way, shape, or form.
There could be plenty of "fault" to go around. This fellow may be quite unclear and vague about what he wants when speaking on the phone. Due to communications difficulties on both sides, the shop may have misunderstood his intent. We simply don't know. There may be inaccuracies to the story that he is relating, and things left out.

I know that when I went to a shop to have my hybrid build done, I physically went by there twice just to discuss the scope/budget of the build with the owner (and to get the measure of the man), and then sent an email confirming the details that we had discussed, and getting their agreement, so I had a "paper trail". I also checked out their reputation pretty thoroughly before signing on with them. I can't imagine doing business any more informally than that with thousands of dollars.

IBComebackforthemeasureoftheman

We used to until 1953. All you have to do is watch old TV shows. The decisions were easier back then.
What color suit should I wear today, black or white? What color car should I get, black or white? See? Much easier!
That's just gold. :rotfl:

There were still lots of old B&W shows on every day when I was a kid in the '70's...Andy Griffith, I Love Lucy, etc..some of it puts the new shows to shame.
 

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To the OP

I no longer practice. So this is pro bono ;)

However, if you sent email exchanges and or spoke face to face and or over the phone and agreed explicitly on a set of parameters that would out line an "expressed agreement" (a legal term) then you have a binding contract by law.

all you would need is some form
Of documentation proving as such. I'm not sure about the state laws in Hawaii, however I know in Cali and Nevada you can sue small claims for up to 25k but sans representation.

However if your exchanges were just a group of parameters unto which you would agree upon later then your ****ed.

If I were you and had some semblance of evidence I would find a lawyer. If you need help finding any in Nevada please let me know. I can help in anyway possible. Most appellate/circuit and otherwise look favorably within reason on the consumer.

Just my two cents, for whatever it's worth etc.
 
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