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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, i'm relatively new to this forum so if i'm doing anything wrong please let me know.

I have a deal lined up for an 04 WRX. The owner spun a rod bearing and bought a new short block, but doesn't want to put it back together. So he's selling the car with a bunch on engine mods waiting to be installed, and a new short block. I will be putting the engine back together.

I had a few questions about what he was going to put in it, but I should give you the mod list first haha.

Mods:
Big 16g turbo
Arp head studs.
Full 3in exhuast
Header with up pipe
730cc injectors
Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
Tgv delete
Sti top mount intercooler
Mishimoto intercooler pipes

Non engine:
Underdrive pulley
Brand new stage 2 clutch
Light weight flywheel
Short throw shifter

(I'm thinking about getting a BOV aswell)

He also has a Cobb accessport but I don't know if I should pay the extra money for it.
So it looks like he's going for the fuel system and turbo+cooling.

My questions:
1. This setup looks well thought out, but will all of this go well together?
2. How will this effect engine reliability? It seems like alot of power.
3. What are the stock injector sizes?
4. Any clue how this setup will effect fuel economy?
5. I'm pretty sure this will need to be tuned to run correctly? If it needs to be tuned, is there possibly a map for it or will it have to be custom?

6. Anything that needs to be changed??

I've never owned a WRX, and i'm building the engine with mods that were previously unknown to me. ANY help or input would be GREATLY appreciated!!
Even if you can answer one question, it helps alot!

Thanks,
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Bump!
Any input guys?
 

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The owner spun a rod bearing
Why? What did he do wrong?

(I'm thinking about getting a BOV aswell)
No.

He also has a Cobb accessport but I don't know if I should pay the extra money for it.
No.

1. This setup looks well thought out,
It's a collection of not uncommon parts, yes.

but will all of this go well together?
History has shown they've not. Plus, the owner doesn't seem to think so.

2. How will this effect engine reliability?
It's been disastrous so far.

3. What are the stock injector sizes?
-40% or so.

4. Any clue how this setup will effect fuel economy?
Dramatically.

5. I'm pretty sure this will need to be tuned to run correctly? If it needs to be tuned, is there possibly a map for it or will it have to be custom?
Custom.

6. Anything that needs to be changed??
I'd find a car that runs and uses authentic Subaru parts plus has a full service history. That's just me.
 

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I checked the injector values to be sure; my estimate was in the ball park. The 2L motors use high Z top fed 420 cc units.

I hope this helps somehow. It would be most beneficial to you in the long run in my view if you simply used it as a point of interest, and found a car that runs with no modifications. Again, just my opinion.
 

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Who is the manufacturer of the turbo and injectors?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The owner said he spun the bearing just driving down the street. I don't know how reliable that is though.

I would prefer a car with no mods, but i'm getting this for such a good price I can't resist.

And no, I do not know the manufacturer of the turbo or injectors. I still have yet to go look at the vehicle. Chatting with the owner and the pictures he provided looks promising.
 

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You don't just spin a bearing driving down the street...

What's the price he's asking? How many miles on the car? What's the condition of the rest of it (paint, body, interior)? Are you going to do this work yourself, or are you going to have to pay somebody to do it? If you're paying somebody, have you found an experienced Subaru tuner and asked them about this list of mods?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't really believe his story either, he had to rev the piss out of it. But he has a brand new short block so I just need to check the heads and transmission to make sure they're still up to par.

He's asking $7700, I talked him down to $6500 on the condition he keeps the accessport. 85,000 miles (Not bad for the year and price) And onto of all that i'll pretty much have a brand new engine with a few mods and transmission improvements.

I have not looked at this car yet, but from the pictures and what i've been told, the interior and body are excellent except for one scrape on the passenger fender.

I will be doing all of the work myself. I've never worked on these cars before but I have alot of experience with engines and vehicles so i'm pretty sure I can figure it out.

I've NEVER had to tune an ECU before, nor did I even know it was possible on something like this. So that is where i'm stumped.
What I need to figure out is with tuning, you have to be able to rev the engine. If this is a brand new engine, you can't run it wild until you break it in.

But to break it in, it needs to be run, and to run, it will probably need to be tuned.
So how does that work?

I'm in Michigan, and i've asked about tuners but have been told to stay away from pretty much everybody around here lol...

Any tuning advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
 

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You can have the shortblock put in without the mods...unless he doesn't have the stock turbo? A "big" 16G isn't that big...but to break it in, you'd just have to keep it out of boost if that's the only turbo.

Tuning will have to be done by preferably a reputable tuner in the area as its not just something you can get some advice on and do. The Accessport is a means to map the ECU, which the original owner may have had loaded onto it when he got tuned...so you may be able to load that map onto the car. But if he's going to accept $1200 less just for keeping the AP, offer him $6800 WITH the AP.

Question is, is the original motor still on the car with the spun bearing and the mods? Or is it all taken apart at this time along with the new short block not in? Or is the short block all back in with none of the mods on it?

Throw up some of the pics you've seen so that we can see them.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the input Mike.

The old engine is out of it.
The new short block is still in the box/crate with no mods.
The car was completely stock when the bearing spun.
All of the mods are brand new in the box as far as I know.
All stock parts are included except for the original intercooler and the old short block.
The car has been sitting for 9 months.

I don't have any pictures on the engine or parts. I have never seen this car in person either, and i'm going to pick it up on November 26th

Here are the only pictures I have: subi :: IMG_0290.jpg picture by risnerry - Photobucket

I'm not sure what he has on the accessport, i'll have to ask and see if he got anything specific.

Thanks!
~ Randy
 

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oh man...I honestly feel like you're getting into a headache for the money you're about to spend. I feel like you could find a better shell and source your own parts to do exactly what you want for the same amount of money. I mean it's pretty cool that you have everything boxed to build yourself, but on top of the shortblock and BNIB mods, you don't know what else on the car may or may not have issues considering it has been sitting.

The interior pics look ok...rather clean. The body is meh including the rust spot on that fender. I find it odd that no engine pics were available. I'd ask for pics of all that stuff as well.

I understand that its a project and you work on cars, but I just want you to think things through from all possible angles no matter how excited you are. Don't want anyone to get screwed...but at the same time, perhaps you could end up with a pretty nice little project.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Wow thanks, I'm greatfull for your input ^_^
And I have not payed him yet. I'm going down to look at the car and if I like it, then pay him.
I'll go underneath with a flashlight to check rust/frame, and check all the engine parts to make sure they are all there.
I'm going to test all of the electrical, and make sure the brakes aren't seized up also.

So, I have a pretty long checklist haha.

I just need to know what to do as far as tuning goes. Like, do I need to flash the ecu before I start it the first time? I hope i'm not gonna have to pay for two ROM's, a break in one then a tuned one.

Tuning advice would be great!
Thanks,
~ Randy.
 

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If the ECU wasn't damaged and the original is still intact, then I would put it all together stock. Stock tune should still be on the ECU if he never modded the original engine. Break it in for the 1k miles, which will also give you time to sort out the condition of the transmission, brakes, electrical, etc to make sure that they are all in ok working order before proceeding with mods...then locate a good tuner (ask around in the regional threads here, and especially over on NASIOC). Find out from the tuner if the parts are ok to proceed with a plan that you guys should sit down and discuss together. Then you can find out if you need anything else before you get to installing and tuning.

Let me know if that makes sense!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yes, that makes perfect sense.
I don't have too much time on my hands though.. So putting some components in twice might be more difficult then just the labor.
What would I leave out the first time? Just the injectors, fuel pump, and turbo? Or would I also have to leave out the upgraded cooling system as well?

And i've found a few tuners in my area, but it's $500 for a protune. I think that's about standard but i'm not sure. And if they have the protune software, do I need my own accessport to load the map? Or can't they do it with theirs?

Thanks!
~ Randy
 

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If you do go for putting it all together at once, they should be able to provide you with some sort of a base map that should be ok for the engine to break in with as part of the overall price for a tune. Otherwise, its just smartest to flatbed it up and drop it off once its all put together. There's really nothing I'd leave off if you were going to do it all anyway...then you'd need to retune again either way.

Accessport is just that, a means to load a map. Many tuners are familiar with it, but most also just use Open Source tuning, which is free software on their own laptops connected with a Tactrix cable that connects via the OBDII port. Find out what the tuner you end up using prefers...but an AP isn't a must (however if an AP is used, its specific to the car because it "marries" to the ECU, meaning it can only be used on that one ECU until it is reverted back to stock and unmarried. A tuner couldn't just use their AP).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm pretty sure this place uses the accessport: Speed Industry.
It looks like they use romraider for something, but I don't know if it's for Subaru's.

I emailed them to find out how things go as far as pricing and stuff.
So if they use the accessport, to tune it, I have to have my own because of the married thing? I was aware of this but I thought the protune software let you hook up to anybody's car and use it because of the licensing?

And your recommendation is to put it together with ALL of the mods, then trailer it over there for a tune?

Thanks!
Randy
 

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They will tune without an Accessport (as evidenced by the part that says "any Subaru reflash) so it is not necessary. But as their website says, they will be able to without a problem.

I was under the impression that with the AccessTuner software, they use the software, then load the map onto YOUR Accessport and flash it on using your own Accessport, not theirs. That way it is available for switching and unloading/reloading maps to your ECU at your discretion, considering you paid for it. This is the case when I had my STI protuned. I brought my AP to them, and above is what they did.

As for RomRaider, that's a pretty standard piece of the Open Source tuning world but specific for data logging...If they need to use Enginuity specifically, it looks like they charge more for that. But Open Source could refer to ECU Flash/RomRaider/OpenECU...not positive on the other specific software available, but they tuner should sort all that out for you.

But bottom line is, you don't have to have an Accessport, though it does give you the cool functionality to flash maps yourself if you ever need to (preloaded Stage 1 and Stage 2 maps, valet mode=no boost, flat foot shifting and launch control, able to load many custom maps on it if you ever want E85, meth kit, race fuel, etc.) and it is very easy to use.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I thought the "Any Subaru reflash" option was just a base map, and not a custom tune. But from what you were assuming it sounds like it would be a custom tune.

What do you think the difference is between the "Any Subaru reflash" and the "Cobb Subaru protune"?
I'm still waiting for them to email me back though.

And you're right, the accessport is an amazing device. But I think I'm only gonna use one map that will hopefully be tuned well enough for good performance and fuel efficiency.
All the other stuff is cool, but if I have to pay like $600 for it I don't think it would be worth it for me.
I'll see if I can talk the seller into giving it to me for cheap.

Thanks!
~ Randy
 

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Reflashing the ECU has nothing to do with whether it's custom tuned or not. It's just how you put the new ROM on the ECU. Both Cobb's AP and the Opensource software reflash the ECU. In the end the Cobb route will cost you more.
 

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keep in mind you'll be paying $xxx amount for Accessport...and then $500-600 for a tune.

Just get the tune done at the tuner, don't worry about the Accessport. Moot point now. :)
 
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