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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/...video-review-2017-volkswagen-golf-gti-se.html

I am quite a fan of Tom Voelk's video reviews. Funny that he drove the GTI off the road...that wouldn't have happened with a WRX with the right tires...

He almost sells me on the GTI, but keeping in mind that for $30K plus you're getting a FWD car with 220 HP, I still think the WRX is the better bang for the buck. Plus VW reliability and even honesty is questionable...

That said, I really like the interior styling. I'm a fan of the teutonic clean and refined design. Not a huge fan of the current exterior design, but then one could quibble about the WRX as well...
 

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I agree.

Plus VW reliability and even honesty is questionable...
Reliability is indeed questionable. I will not buy any VAG product at this point, even those not made in Germany (and I extend this to bikes; no Ducatis for me).

Honesty is not questionable. They admit they are dishonest.

I'm out of their fan club. I'm sure they're crying into a train car full of money, but in any case they're not getting what little I have.

That said, I really like the interior styling. I'm a fan of the teutonic clean and refined design.
It can be heavy-handed or austere at times but it is very attractive usually, I agree.
 

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When it comes to fit, finish and flat interior feel for the price VW is hard to beat. Even the cheapest VW has a surprisingly nice quality feel. I am not sold at all on the reliability factor of the car in general, but if you want to have the best interior for the money I genuinely feel VW can't be beat.

I can promise you that would have happened regardless of the vehicle, it was less the vehicle he was in and more coming in hot to a wet dirty corner. AWD wouldn't have done anything to stop as he had no steering. AWD doesn't add traction, it just distributes it better among 4 wheels making the most of available tire grip on a hard acceleration. Thats why it kills in WRC.

As far as VW's honesty. I can assure you, they were just the ones that got caught. That type of thing isn't unique among vehicle manufacturers, or even suppliers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
When it comes to fit, finish and flat interior feel for the price VW is hard to beat. Even the cheapest VW has a surprisingly nice quality feel. I am not sold at all on the reliability factor of the car in general, but if you want to have the best interior for the money I genuinely feel VW can't be beat.

I can promise you that would have happened regardless of the vehicle, it was less the vehicle he was in and more coming in hot to a wet dirty corner. AWD wouldn't have done anything to stop as he had no steering. AWD doesn't add traction, it just distributes it better among 4 wheels making the most of available tire grip on a hard acceleration. Thats why it kills in WRC.

As far as VW's honesty. I can assure you, they were just the ones that got caught. That type of thing isn't unique among vehicle manufacturers, or even suppliers.
I like the GTI interior a lot. I drove a Tiguan for awhile as a rental and was not as impressed.

Re' the slide earlier shots show the VW with what look like summer performance tires--different tires might make a difference. Also, I think one might be able power out of a slide using AWD if it's not too far gone. (I've never slid off the road in any kind of weather, period, just sayin'...)

Finally, there's a good chance the Subie could have gotten back on the road without a tow.

Re' VW's scandal other manufacturers have lied about mileage issues--the worst cases seem to be almost exclusively with European manufacturers and diesel engines, which of course Subaru doesn't have. Apparently Mitsubishi admitted to lying about emissions in cars sold in Japan.

Mitsubishi: We've been cheating on fuel tests for 25 years - Apr. 26, 2016

I'm not aware of anything involving Subaru, Toyota or Honda.
 

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I would not own any German vehicle that wasn't new or CPO...before the warranty ran out, it would be out of my possession.
 

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That's where I differ. I would much rather own an older mid to late 2000s and earlier bmw than anything new. And VW brands mk 1 or mk 2 era only.

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Re' VW's scandal other manufacturers have lied about mileage issues--the worst cases seem to be almost exclusively with European manufacturers and diesel engines, which of course Subaru doesn't have.
Subaru offers their diesel engine in the Outback and Forester. The Outback may be lighter/smaller; it gets around 5.5L per 100 km fuel consumption whereas the Forester is a bit higher at 5.7L per 100 km. I think that's mixed cycle use but am unsure. In any case, Subaru do offer diesels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Subaru offers their diesel engine in the Outback and Forester. The Outback may be lighter/smaller; it gets around 5.5L per 100 km fuel consumption whereas the Forester is a bit higher at 5.7L per 100 km. I think that's mixed cycle use but am unsure. In any case, Subaru do offer diesels.
OK, but not in the US...

Re' German cars, I have experience with Audi and BMW. I like BMW especially. I would not say they are low in terms of maintenance costs (when out of warranty), but they are very reliable. All BMW owners of older cars know about their various issues, just as owners of Japanese cars do.
 

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XJman said:
That's where I differ. I would much rather own an older mid to late 2000s and earlier bmw than anything new. And VW brands mk 1 or mk 2 era only.
If I was looking at used luxury vehicle from that era, Lexus.
 

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I'm not saying there were no better options. I was referring to German built vehicles only. I've always liked the early 2000's Lexus IS and the Accura TL, and still today ponder finding a TL for cheap and using it as a daily driver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I had gotten a 2002 Acura CL for my son to drive--automatic--but a REALLY nice car, easily comparable to a BMW 325 from the era and a better bang for the buck. Had only 70K miles on it when I got it.

It developed transmission problems at about 120K miles and was eventually disposed of--not sure exactly what happened, since I was 600 miles away, but I imagine it had to do with my son driving the he** out of it and not maintaining it.
 

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Honda transmissions from the era had a few issues -- those fitted with their V6 engines specifically. They were sorted out later and our now solid once again as far as I know.
 

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I still think the WRX is the better bang for the buck.
Depends on what you're looking for. The VW is probably much easier to live with. I know the one I sat in a few months ago felt leaps and bounds more refined and comfortable than my STI.

I would not own any German vehicle that wasn't new or CPO...before the warranty ran out, it would be out of my possession.

However, this. ^^^ But who am I kidding? I ditch all of my cars within a couple years, so this would be no exception.
 

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/...video-review-2017-volkswagen-golf-gti-se.html

I am quite a fan of Tom Voelk's video reviews. Funny that he drove the GTI off the road...that wouldn't have happened with a WRX with the right tires...

He almost sells me on the GTI, but keeping in mind that for $30K plus you're getting a FWD car with 220 HP, I still think the WRX is the better bang for the buck. Plus VW reliability and even honesty is questionable...

That said, I really like the interior styling. I'm a fan of the teutonic clean and refined design. Not a huge fan of the current exterior design, but then one could quibble about the WRX as well...
Keep in mind 220hp is under rated if you live any where near sea level and have access to 91-93 octane. Dyno numbers have put GTI power near the 240-250bhp range and in instrumented tests, the GTI was usually about .2 of second within the Focus ST.
The last VW I owned was a 2013 GLI and a purely stock Dyno (On a Mustang Dyno) yielded 201.1 whp. My car was rated at 200BHP. Also got 204 ft-tq for being rated at 207tq

Reliability is indeed questionable. I will not buy any VAG product at this point, even those not made in Germany (and I extend this to bikes; no Ducatis for me).

Honesty is not questionable. They admit they are dishonest.
Ducati is Italian. they just happened to be a subsidiary of Audi via ownership of Lamborghini. Still the Italians are not known for reliability either XD. And I agree that VW just got caught cheating. In addition to Mitsubishi, Mercedes ( https://www.hbsslaw.com/cases/merce...ons-tests-in-nearly-all-real-world-conditions ) is also being accused of cheating. The dominoes are falling with diesels in general....


When it comes to fit, finish and flat interior feel for the price VW is hard to beat. Even the cheapest VW has a surprisingly nice quality feel. I am not sold at all on the reliability factor of the car in general, but if you want to have the best interior for the money I genuinely feel VW can't be beat.
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Reliability can be hit or miss. I had a 2007 GTI for nearly 5 years and 80k miles. The biggest problem I had was misfires from a lean after market tune. My GLI I only had for 4 years 65k miles. Also reliable despite my attempts to make it not so (Modding). They are far from perfect though. I have seen lots of problematic threads about electrical issues and fuel pumps going bad.

I would not own any German vehicle that wasn't new or CPO...before the warranty ran out, it would be out of my possession.
I would definitely agree. German cars cannot be beat on like most japanese vehicles. They must be maintained properly and used as directed. If you have no maintanence history on ANY used German vehicle, keep on walking.
 

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Because all manufacturers are held to the same standard at calculating advertised hp numbers I highly doubt they are under rated at all.

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VW commented on its power rating stating that it is providing a "Guaranteed minumum" power output. so example, 220bhp is guaranteed if you are in colorado, using 89 octane. If you are closer to sealevel using 93 octane you will see more power. The Germans in general have been doing this kind of thing for years. it also didnt stop the Japanese from rating their sports cars at "276"bhp for nearly a decade despite producing vehicles (Skylines, Supras etc.) that eclipsed 300 bhp due to a gentlemans agreement not to escalate a horse power war.
 

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They have to offer power ratings via SAE methods. Unless somehow they skirt these rules much like they do emissions.

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I can make a dyno say my stage 2 WRX is 500whp.

When the engines are designed and tested they have to be tested under a specific situation. The power is given based off of that. I've not looked to verify if the advertised number is SAE or not, but if it is putting down a legitimate 220whp then the car is not advertising SAE hp

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They have to offer power ratings via SAE methods. Unless somehow they skirt these rules much like they do emissions.

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They dont really have to. No one does unless they state it is SAE certified.
 
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