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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I put some Motul 300V 5W40 in a couple of month ago and just recently had it analyzed @ Blackstone Labs. The idea came as several guys at Nasioc were getting there oil analyzed w/ track time. The inital thought was a "heavier" oil was in order, you'll see from the following results not so- maybe w/ a different motor, but not ours.

This is scoobybrande's post:

Oil for racing, with facts, for a change

For whatever reason, I long believed that a heavier oil was necessary when racing your car. I took my 02 WRX to a track day at New Hampshire International Speedway in August of '02, and filled the sump with Amsoil Series 2000 20W-50. Since I like facts and loathe baseless opinions, I had the oil analyzed by a lab afterwards. I was displeased with the results. Curious if the problem was oil that was too thick, the next track day I did, May '03 at Lime Rock Park, I ran Amsoil 10W-40. Once again, the results were analyzed. This time, they were much more acceptable. I will post the results from both below.



code:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

date sampled 9/17/02 6/4/03
miles on unit 15931 33841
miles on sample 2940 3114
oil used S2K 20W-50 AMO 10W-40
visc. @100 16.8 13.83
Oxidation 15.6 8
Nitration 12.9 11
TBN 12.5 9.84
Iron 17 7
Chromium 0 1
Lead 93 20
Copper 6 11
Tin 5 0
Aluminum 9 5
Silicon 9 14
Boron 32 1
Sodium 3 4
Magnesium 383 23
Calcium 3168 3412
Barium 0 2
Phosphorus 1325 1156
Zinc 1618 1185
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lead, and maybe tin, represent bearing wear. These numbers are both drastically higher with the 20W-50. 20 ppm lead could even be considered normal street wear on some cars (though not Subaru's in my opinion). 93 is definitely through the roof. Iron and aluminum are both higher, though not drastically. These represent piston on cylinder wall wear.
Both oils, from what can be discerned from these results, are still intact and still capable of many thousands of miles more in a street car. This is based on their reserve TBN and their viscocities, both of which are still "in-grade". The TBN with the 10W-40 is probably more like 11.8, different test method from the 20W-50.

So, is this conclusive proof that heavier oils are not better for racing? No, of course not. One test is just food for thought, it would take scores of similar tests to begin to prove anything. But I thought I would contribute these results so that some objectivity can enter the old "which oil is better" debate.




Last edited by scoobybrande on 06-11-2003 at 07:16 PM

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This is xstar's post:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

date 6/07/2003 5/13/2003 5/21/2002
miles on unit 30386 27992 (virgin oil)
miles on sample 2390 ~1500 (virgin oil)
oil used Mobil1 10W30 Mobil1 10W30 Mobil1 10W30
SUS visc. @ 210F 58.2 59.3 58.3
TBN 7.0 14.5 not tested
IRON 8 8 1
CHROMIUM 1 1 0
LEAD 2 2 0
COPPER 2 2 0
TIN 0 0 0
ALUMINUM 5 5 0
SILICON 7 6 3
BORON 183 181 190
SODIUM 10 8 9
MAGNESIUM 23 25 16
CALCIUM 3224 2883 2976
BARIUM 1 0 0
PHOSPHORUS 822 802 749
ZINC 907 920 827
MOLYBDENUM 75 82 69
NICKEL 1 0 0
MANGANESE 0 1 0
SILVER 0 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0 0
POTASSIUM 1 1 0
------------------------------------------------------------------------

5/13/2003 Sample
This sample includes 1000 miles driven from Boston to West Virginia (round trip). Then includes ~250 track miles at Summit Point.
The Mobil1 10W30 is the SuperSyn formula, purchased at Costco for $3.33/qt in March 2003. The viscosity is kinda low. The norm given by the sampling firm is 59-68.

Oil pressure on the track:
~70 psi WOT
~22 psi hot idle (immediately after a session)

The TBN count and viscosity numbers looked good. I think I must extend my sample mileage to around 3000 miles. I have a new sample of 2400 miles with 4 track days (305 track miles @ NHIS) which I will be analyzed soon. I'll post that once I get it back. Personally, I just want the facts so I don't change the oil too often and waste my money.

6/07/2003 Sample

This sample includes 305 track miles at NHIS (4 days) and ~2100 road + highway miles.

Notes from the lab: all engine wear appear normal. TBN of 7.0 means there is still usable life left in the oil. Oil and air filtration looked ok with no fuel or anti-freeze in the oil sample. Lab recommended to extend the oil usage interval to 4000 miles.

(edit: corrected with actual sample data and added virigin oil data)

Here's my analysis:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

date 8/29/03
miles on unit 42000 (virgin oil)
miles on sample 3400 (virgin oil)
oil used Motul 5W40, Motul 5W40
SUS visc. @ 210F 66.3 73.1
TBN not tested
IRON 6 2
CHROMIUM 1 0
LEAD 1 0
COPPER 2 0
TIN 1 0
ALUMINUM 2 0
SILICON 9 9
BORON 27 0
SODIUM 4 2
MAGNESIUM 569 661
CALCIUM 2595 2642
BARIUM 0 0
PHOSPHORUS 1060 1153
ZINC 1250 1356
MOLYBDENUM 83 87
NICKEL 0 0
MANGANESE 1 1
SILVER 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0
POTASSIUM 0 0
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blackstone was not familiar w/ Motul, but were impressed w/ the results. lso found no fuel, antifreeze or water present. I had 3400 miles on my sample, 120 miles of track at PIR, two autox's (~ 10 runs each), and some marathon driving 500+ miles/day in 100 degree heat- many over some of OR finest twisty roads- not your typical 3000 miles. I'll be sticking w/ Motul for spring/summer/fall and winter (offseason) will go back to Mobil 5W30.

Big Sky
 

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For those of us who don't know what all those things mean, what statistics show the motul was better? What things do you look for?
 

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A little more explanation for us less-technically endowed would be nice.

I want to give you big props for posting these tests. I too am tired of all the unsubstantiated claims that seem to spawn and never die. Thanks for giving us hard data to work with, even if I didn't understand it all. :D
 

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I re-arranged the data so it's easier to read. Microsoft Word required. Download it and look at it while reading the thread at the same time, it'll make more sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm still on steep curve learning engine oil analysis, but here is a little of what I've gathered.

Generally lead and tin represent bearing wear (all figures are in ppm-parts per million), aluminum and iron cylinder/piston wear.

If you look at the 20W50 it had 93 ppm lead and 5 tin, iron was 17 and aluminum 9

The 10W40 was better w/ lead at 20, tin 0, iron 7 and aluminum 5

The 10W30 Mobil looked good w/ lead at 2, tin at 0, iron at 8 and aluminum 5.

My sample showed lead at 1, tin at 1, iron at 6 and aluminum at 2.

I still need to some more reading up, but my initial impression is this oil works pretty good. Like I said I'll run the motul during the season and Mobil 1 (5W30) in the winter.

Evidently the WRC rex runs Motul 5W40, that should be somewhat comforting.

Big Sky
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Areitu- thanks for putting that in much more readable format:D
 

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Big Sky WRX said:
Areitu- thanks for putting that in much more readable format:D
You're welcome! I wasn't sure what I was looking at until I noticed that there were two or three sets of numbers corresponding to the oil type/weight. And I'd like to understand oil analysis results too...
 

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awesome, i'll have to give 10w40 a shot. i've been running royal purple 10w30 with no complaints (but no analysis either).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Those results were w/ my 02 sedan, I'm running the Motul in my wagon as well ("summer" only)- I've got two track days on it, two autox's- I'm going to give it another 1,000 miles and I'll probably have it tested- I'll post results.

What I've been reading of late is a few guys running 0W40 (Mobil 1)- I'd like to see some results w/ that.
 
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