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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Mine was clearly the lowest horsepower car in this group. The Gen5, with a centrifugal supercharger lays down just short of 900HP at the wheels. The '16 ZO6 Vette is at 1,100Hp at the wheels. The Nova is 600 on engine, 750 - 800 with Nitrous. The ZL1 1LE has small mods done that add about 50 horsepower. Enough to put my stock ZL1 in last place.
 

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Nice!

Too much hp for the street IMO, but as long as you are all being responsible...
 

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I have no idea what Too Much Horsepower means or might be. I am sure that we all religiously observe all traffic laws.
Although traction control and ECU mapping has significantly changed the game, I suspect that 1000whp and cars that can regularly do sub-10 second in the quarter mile are far too dangerous for the average driver. Even a conservative application of the throttle in the midst of a turn can cause stability problems that may endanger the driver and others on the road.

It's pretty amazing that cars like the SRT Hellcat, ZL1, or Z06 can almost drive like a 300hp car thanks to stability control, but that can go only so far. 1000whp IMO is far too much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
;):D:tongue:;)
Although traction control and ECU mapping has significantly changed the game, I suspect that 1000whp and cars that can regularly do sub-10 second in the quarter mile are far too dangerous for the average driver. Even a conservative application of the throttle in the midst of a turn can cause stability problems that may endanger the driver and others on the road.

It's pretty amazing that cars like the SRT Hellcat, ZL1, or Z06 can almost drive like a 300hp car thanks to stability control, but that can go only so far. 1000whp IMO is far too much.
Since I grew up in the times when Driver's Education was a full part of the high school curriculum and now is mostly out sourced to private enterprise (weeks of spotty training versus 9 months of training -- half in class room and then actual driving cars equipped with a second set of brakes and other controls for safety); I'll offer another opinion. It is not horsepower. Goodness, 500, 600 or 1,000HP is likely to be backed by proper tires, brakes and advanced systems. In 1967, 400 or 500HP machines had drum brakes and bias belted tires.


What are the problems today are very distracted and poorly trained drivers that do not have the first clue of how to manage a car in any type of emergency or performance scenario. The United States, easily, has some of the poorest drivers on the planet. Turned loose with little or no training and even less (no) experience in an emergency maneuver, they are sent forth to into our congested traffic.

I favor 18 or even a 21 year old licensing age. The licensing should be proceeded by significant class room time and substantial driving time. Germany has a very solid model to follow.

The problem is not my friends with their 1,000HP vehicles, that are paired with either NHRA or NASA / HOD licenses. It is the world of distracted, inattentive and unskilled drivers that operate their cars around us.

Now that was a high brow sermon filled with self serving BS, if I've ever seen one.
 

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Great cars and photo!

It's entertaining, coming form the world of Subaru's, where 300 to the ground is considered pretty respectable (I think the BRZ made about 165 to the wheels, lol), to move to the Camaro world, where that's "toy car" status. Honestly, I feel like my SS has as much power as I'll ever need or want..for the foreseeable future. But I know how this goes..you get used to what you have, blah blah blah.

I should probably stop lurking around at Camaro6..too much talk about adding a Procharger, etc..600+ hp seems so unnecessary... :rotfl:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Great cars and photo!

It's entertaining, coming form the world of Subaru's, where 300 to the ground is considered pretty respectable (I think the BRZ made about 165 to the wheels, lol), to move to the Camaro world, where that's "toy car" status. Honestly, I feel like my SS has as much power as I'll ever need or want..for the foreseeable future. But I know how this goes..you get used to what you have, blah blah blah.

I should probably stop lurking around at Camaro6..too much talk about adding a Procharger, etc..600+ hp seems so unnecessary... :rotfl:
Come on in, the waters fine. You should be making plans for Bowling Green, right now. Sign up for NCM Raceway, plus two days of Beech Bend and some Camaro Cross while you are restin'. 1,000HP, why that's a good start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Since this thread is related to crazy high HP and all that..

I read this today: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...-corvette-zr1-review-first-drive-photos-info/


talk about a monster.
Set new track record at VIR, beating the $400K Ford GT in the process. The dealership where I picked up my ZL1 has one that is sold, coming in. They are going to call me so that I can at least look at it before it is delivered. I figure after that, I'll only be able to see the back end of it as it disappears into the distance.
 

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Set new track record at VIR, beating the $400K Ford GT in the process. The dealership where I picked up my ZL1 has one that is sold, coming in. They are going to call me so that I can at least look at it before it is delivered. I figure after that, I'll only be able to see the back end of it as it disappears into the distance.
seems that way.

bummer about the automatic transmission though in it being half assed. I wonder why they didn't just put your A10 in.
 

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;):D:tongue:;)

Since I grew up in the times when Driver's Education was a full part of the high school curriculum and now is mostly out sourced to private enterprise (weeks of spotty training versus 9 months of training -- half in class room and then actual driving cars equipped with a second set of brakes and other controls for safety); I'll offer another opinion. It is not horsepower. Goodness, 500, 600 or 1,000HP is likely to be backed by proper tires, brakes and advanced systems. In 1967, 400 or 500HP machines had drum brakes and bias belted tires.


What are the problems today are very distracted and poorly trained drivers that do not have the first clue of how to manage a car in any type of emergency or performance scenario. The United States, easily, has some of the poorest drivers on the planet. Turned loose with little or no training and even less (no) experience in an emergency maneuver, they are sent forth to into our congested traffic.

I favor 18 or even a 21 year old licensing age. The licensing should be proceeded by significant class room time and substantial driving time. Germany has a very solid model to follow.

The problem is not my friends with their 1,000HP vehicles, that are paired with either NHRA or NASA / HOD licenses. It is the world of distracted, inattentive and unskilled drivers that operate their cars around us.

Now that was a high brow sermon filled with self serving BS, if I've ever seen one.
I will certainly not argue with your statement about distracted driving.

The licensing age I'm not sure I agree with, though more stringent rules may be applicable to "restricted" drivers under the age of 18. Think: restricted licensing in Sweden. There is a strange belief that "millenials" -- though most people misconstrued as millenials <18 are actually GenZ -- are the principle offenders of distracted driving. Around my area where traffic is prolific if not expected, distracted driving is the norm. It will disgust you. I find that drivers of all apparent ages -- though usually under 60 -- are frequent offenders. They don't often like when I make direct eye contact and gesture to put the phone down. This is particularly scary for me since I am often on a motorcycle.

BUT none of this is counterpoint to my original argument. Even with modern tires, modern brakes, and traction control, it's very easy to overwhelm the limits of traction with more than 1000whp being sent to two wheels. With a conservative 18% drivetrain loss, we're talking almost 1200hp. Everyone likes to think that they are "better than average," but that's statistically impossible is it not?
 

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... They don't often like when I make direct eye contact and gesture to put the phone down...
Good for you! I used to blow my horn beside someone on the phone; I don't do that any more as I realized it was not a very 'nice' way to convey a message and it usually did not even convey anyway. Kudos to you for doing it and doing it nicely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I will certainly not argue with your statement about distracted driving.

The licensing age I'm not sure I agree with, though more stringent rules may be applicable to "restricted" drivers under the age of 18. Think: restricted licensing in Sweden. There is a strange belief that "millenials" -- though most people misconstrued as millenials <18 are actually GenZ -- are the principle offenders of distracted driving. Around my area where traffic is prolific if not expected, distracted driving is the norm. It will disgust you. I find that drivers of all apparent ages -- though usually under 60 -- are frequent offenders. They don't often like when I make direct eye contact and gesture to put the phone down. This is particularly scary for me since I am often on a motorcycle.

BUT none of this is counterpoint to my original argument. Even with modern tires, modern brakes, and traction control, it's very easy to overwhelm the limits of traction with more than 1000whp being sent to two wheels. With a conservative 18% drivetrain loss, we're talking almost 1200hp. Everyone likes to think that they are "better than average," but that's statistically impossible is it not?
Zach,

I am very much in the camp that distracted driving has no age requirements. Soccer Moms in their 6,000 pound SUVs (most of the time it is just the driver in the vehicle) are among the most troubling. Sweden and Germany were two of the countries that I had in mind when I stated a need for more stringent training and testing for an operators license.

Of the cars in the picture, mine is the only daily driver in the bunch. I also know that this is a pretty dedicated group of track folks. Directly to your point, yes anything much over 300 horsepower can overwhelm tires, brakes, etc. However, since everyone who owns and operates these vehicles, is at least 40 years of age, track experienced and in some of the cases holder of a competition license, it is my feeling that these are truly in the above average drivers' categories. Mean averages are composed of scores above and below the mean. IMHO, this group would compose numbers above the mean.

If your point is that any vehicle with over 1,000 horsepower should be banned from street operations then I believe there will be some objections from Bugatti owners, for starters. If the point is that any car that has enough power to overwhelm the tires should be banned from street operations, then I feel that list would start with any vehicle making 300 or more horsepower.
 

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If your point is that any vehicle with over 1,000 horsepower should be banned from street operations then I believe there will be some objections from Bugatti owners, for starters. If the point is that any car that has enough power to overwhelm the tires should be banned from street operations, then I feel that list would start with any vehicle making 300 or more horsepower.
to both of these notes I would like to add: Guns kill people by themselves with no other interference from human beings.
 

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;):D:tongue:;) The United States, easily, has some of the poorest drivers on the planet.
Hmmm...have you ever driven in Naples? Or the West Bank? Or Tallinn? Or Falmouth, Jamaica?? (Actually I have never driven in any of these places but was a passenger, and surprised every time we made it home without a major accident.)

I agree the US isn't on a par with Germany, and in fact in my somewhat limited experience there (and in most of Western Europe) teenagers are not keen to drive at all. It's expensive and there's a lot of training that is required. I would bet <50% of 20 year-olds have a license. (It has gone down in the US in recent years--only 69% of US teens had a license in 2014. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/the-decline-of-the-drivers-license/425169/)

Also, drunk driving laws in Europe are very strict--.05 BAL in Germany--and virtually all cities of any size have trains and/or excellent public transportation.

However, I have to agree with the poster above that most Americans should not be trusted with more than 200 HP. I mean, let's be realistic here--there are a lot of idiots who can barely feed and dress themselves, yet they can get in a car to go to the casino or dollar store without a second thought. (Yes I know that's an elitist statement--I'm an elitist, just deal with it.)

Love the car photos by the way--sounds like fun. I bet the exhaust notes were INTENSE...
 

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BTW, I really appreciate that we can have a civil discussion about this topic. Seems to be atypical on Forums.

None of what I've typed makes me lust after a ZL-1 any less...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
BTW, I really appreciate that we can have a civil discussion about this topic. Seems to be atypical on Forums.

None of what I've typed makes me lust after a ZL-1 any less...
Zax,

Everyone on this forum is a Car Person (used to always say Car Guy). It is good to share information with folks who make an attempt to converse instead of confront. The discussion that I had with my better-half, just last night, was around the fact that in 20 years, all of our cars will be looked at in the same way as we view horse drawn wagons. While I may be around then, I may care little either way. The ZL1 was my way of ensuring that I have something to remember (if my memory stays around), with fondness, The Golden Age of Automobiles.

Every owner in that photo has much the same view. We all understand that cars are changing. We are approaching being the last group to remember these ferocious machines and why they had such an impact on our lives.
 
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