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This is directly from Cobb's website...........

"All aftermarket intakes for 08+ Subarus require tuning, regardless of manufacturer, in order to ensure the MAF sensor reads properly and the engine operates within safe parameters."

COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake Kit
and cobb being the seller of ECU/engine management is going to of coarse tell you to pick one up. How else are they going to make money on their product if they don't put fear into you by saying if u don't use this u will blow your engine. Its all a marketing tactics and well they did a fine job at that.[/QUOTE]
 

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Village Idiot
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and cobb being the seller of ECU/engine management is going to of coarse tell you to pick one up. How else are they going to make money on their product if they don't put fear into you by saying if u don't use this u will blow your engine. Its all a marketing tactics and well they did a fine job at that.
No, they are covering their ass so they don't get sued. Because, installing an aftermarket intake on this generation throws the MAF scaling off, since the diameter of the intake is different than that of the stock intake. This means the car will be getting a different amount of air than it thinks, thus causing problems with the A/F. At idle it may correct itself, but under open loop fueling conditions it will not be able to correct itself. Instead the ECU is relying on believing that the MAF is measuring the right amount of air, which in the case of having an aftermarket intake, it is not. This results in a lean condition under high load. Lean conditions are much worse than rich conditions generally speaking. Finally, Boom.
 

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No, they are covering their ass so they don't get sued. Because, installing an aftermarket intake on this generation throws the MAF scaling off, since the diameter of the intake is different than that of the stock intake. This means the car will be getting a different amount of air than it thinks, thus causing problems with the A/F. At idle it may correct itself, but under open loop fueling conditions it will not be able to correct itself. Instead the ECU is relying on believing that the MAF is measuring the right amount of air, which in the case of having an aftermarket intake, it is not. This results in a lean condition under high load. Lean conditions are much worse than rich conditions generally speaking. Finally, Boom.
How can they get sued or any aftermarket company get sued....you void warranty on your own vehicle once a screwdriver touches your engine...copp,ets,mish they don't have guns to your head saying " install this mod". Although your input on maf is correct , the part about being sued is complete garbage. I never heard once where a company " got sued" for a mod that in a clear aspect voids warranty on a new car.
 

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How can they get sued or any aftermarket company get sued....you void warranty on your own vehicle once a screwdriver touches your engine...copp,ets,mish they don't have guns to your head saying " install this mod". Although your input on maf is correct , the part about being sued is complete garbage. I never heard once where a company " got sued" for a mod that in a clear aspect voids warranty on a new car.
It's not about voiding the warranty at all, that's a topic for a whole other discussion. It's about informing their customers that a part needs the correct ECU calibration in order for the engine to operate safely. Otherwise, if they make a part that changes the way the engine operates and they don't inform the ignorant that calibration is needed, then the buyer has every right to start a legal process claiming that the seller misinformed the buyer of the necessary additional actions required for the car to operate within safe parameters.
 

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and cobb being the seller of ECU/engine management is going to of coarse tell you to pick one up. How else are they going to make money on their product if they don't put fear into you by saying if u don't use this u will blow your engine. Its all a marketing tactics and well they did a fine job at that.
Incorrect. MAF issues on aftermarket intakes on the GR+ cars is well-documented by many parties outside of Cobb. While it's true they are in the business of selling ECU modification tools, stating that you need a tune for an intake is not a fear tactic, it's the truth.

No, they are covering their ass so they don't get sued.
Sadly, in our litigious culture, I believe you're technically correct, but more importantly, if they sold parts that destroyed everyone's cars, they wouldn't be in business long.

Say what you will about Cobb, in all my dealings with them (including in person at their shop), they've always presented themselves honestly, clearly explaining the risks of modifying the car, and what they can do to minimize those risks. I never felt "guilted" into buying extras I didn't need. This is why Cobb (and all other tuning shops I'm aware of) require pre-dyno inspections, so any issues can be rectified before they touch the car, and they aren't held liable for a tune that exposes a pre-existing issue.
 

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How can they get sued or any aftermarket company get sued....

Any time someone gets butthurt about something they can sue. I could sue you for what you've posted right here.. it doesn't mean I would win, but I could sue you, and you'd have to go to court.. you might even need to hire a lawyer. Dealing with lawsuits costs time and money, whether they're frivolous or not.
 

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Any time someone gets butthurt about something they can sue. I could sue you for what you've posted right here.. it doesn't mean I would win, but I could sue you, and you'd have to go to court.. you might even need to hire a lawyer. Dealing with lawsuits costs time and money, whether they're frivolous or not.
This post was offensive. You'll be hearing from my lawyer! :tongue:
 

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How can they get sued or any aftermarket company get sued....you void warranty on your own vehicle once a screwdriver touches your engine...copp,ets,mish they don't have guns to your head saying " install this mod". Although your input on maf is correct , the part about being sued is complete garbage. I never heard once where a company " got sued" for a mod that in a clear aspect voids warranty on a new car.
This is directly from Cobb's website...........

"All aftermarket intakes for 08+ Subarus require tuning, regardless of manufacturer, in order to ensure the MAF sensor reads properly and the engine operates within safe parameters."

COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake Kit[/QUOT

and cobb being the seller of ECU/engine management is going to of coarse tell you to pick one up. How else are they going to make money on their product if they don't put fear into you by saying if u don't use this u will blow your engine. Its all a marketing tactics and well they did a fine job at that.
You couldn't be any more wrong, but I'm sure you'll find a way to surprise me.
 

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You know back when I had my 08 wrx, I ran a Perrin cai for about 6 months without a tune. Perrin "claimed" that their intake did not require a tune. Hind sight is always 20/20. I have been into subaru's since I was young. And had my first one when I was 19. However, I just recently, within the last 2 years, have really been getting into the technical/tuning/engine management side of things and realized that I was wrong with alot of the old things I used to do to my subarus.(i.e. running an intake without a proper tune) Throughout all of this I have became much more knowledgable about these cars and find myself receiving phone calls and messages from friends all the time on help with their new wrx or sti. It feels good to help people modify their new car the right way and keep their car healthy all while sharing my knowledge with them to pass on one day. And I must say a good bit of my knowledge has came from you guys on here. So thanks alot for that.

Basically OP, if you want to run an intake, get the proper tune for it and listen to the advise given on here. People like myself, townline, and many others are always here to help, then you have SD, Zax, Donkey, and too many to name on here that are 10x more knowledgable than we are. We are here to help!
Hey i’m kind of new to the subaru community and i just recently got a 2002 wrx. I’ve wanted a subaru ever since i was little, specially the bugeye, and I think i know a decent amount about the car. I recently started running a 3 inch catless dp with a three inch cat back with basically no cats or resonators. I haven’t gotten the tune for it yet and I was curious to what you thought about that. Bad idea or do you think the car should be ok for a while?
 

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The bugeye car will be OK. You can deal with the CEL mechanically. Do not waste money on an intake; if you do them you will need to remap the car anyway.
 

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You know back when I had my 08 wrx, I ran a Perrin cai for about 6 months without a tune. Perrin "claimed" that their intake did not require a tune. Hind sight is always 20/20. I have been into subaru's since I was young. And had my first one when I was 19. However, I just recently, within the last 2 years, have really been getting into the technical/tuning/engine management side of things and realized that I was wrong with alot of the old things I used to do to my subarus.(i.e. running an intake without a proper tune) Throughout all of this I have became much more knowledgable about these cars and find myself receiving phone calls and messages from friends all the time on help with their new wrx or sti. It feels good to help people modify their new car the right way and keep their car healthy all while sharing my knowledge with them to pass on one day. And I must say a good bit of my knowledge has came from you guys on here. So thanks alot for that.

Basically OP, if you want to run an intake, get the proper tune for it and listen to the advise given on here. People like myself, townline, and many others are always here to help, then you have SD, Zax, Donkey, and too many to name on here that are 10x more knowledgable than we are. We are here to help!
I ran my 2016 WRX for about 9 months with I Perrin cia that said it did not need a tune. Car seemed to run just fine and really changed the sound of the engine, could even hear the stock bov.
 

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I ran my 2016 WRX for about 9 months with I Perrin cia that said it did not need a tune. Car seemed to run just fine and really changed the sound of the engine, could even hear the stock bov.
How did you know it was running well? Did you install a 3rd party data logging software and wide band o2?
 

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Well did purchase the Accessport even though I did not get it tuned right away, so kept a eye on it to make sure. I am not a mechanic but had a friend who is and he helped me install it. I think it came with a different o2 sensor? When I went to get it pro tuned the tuner said he had heard of others who had done what I done and the Perrin was okay. But almost all the other cai's need a tune and I was concered that Perrin would not give as much of a power boost as the others. At over 55,000 miles now and have had not one issue other than a check engine light that was not related.
 

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Don't ever go back to that tuner. The Perrin absolutely needs tuned. Anything aside from the factory unit does.

There is some data published by ETS for their intake showing maf scaling and airflow vs stock. Their intake was made to purposely flow exactly like stock, however I'm wary of marketing wankery.
 

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Well I had a feeling you were not going to accept my response and I was right. Well like I said I had no issues during or after and am quite happy with my tuner and plan on going back. Never claimed to know everything and I am wary of someone who seems to think they do. But either way with what you said glad I did not run it too long with the cai until I did get a proper tune.
 

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Well I had a feeling you were not going to accept my response and I was right. Well like I said I had no issues during or after and am quite happy with my tuner and plan on going back. Never claimed to know everything and I am wary of someone who seems to think they do. But either way with what you said glad I did not run it too long with the cai until I did get a proper tune.
The challenge is this. There is years and years of data to prove "you don't need a tune" is completely and entirely wrong. Tuners have been scaling the maf readings now for over 10 years on these vehicles.

I'm inclined to believe hard evidence and not gut feeling.
 

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This is the Dunning Kruger effect at its finest.

Anecdotal evidence always seems to prevail with the ignorant.
 
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