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Will I damage my 2014 wrx with a Cobb sf intake with no tune ? I know the tune will need to happen to expect gains but as of now I want better sound resignation
 

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Some cars can re learn on their own, I'm sure subaru is the same way although you WILL NOT see any gains without a tune, but subaru is a LOT more temperamental with modding properly. You will damage the engine without modding it correctly. That goes for any mod as well
 

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Some cars can re learn on their own, I'm sure subaru is the same way although you WILL NOT see any gains without a tune, but subaru is a LOT more temperamental with modding properly. You will damage the engine without modding it correctly. That goes for any mod as well
They don't have infinite learning and there is no O2 feedback in Openloop fueling. The ECU is strictly using the MAF's output. Cobb's website I'm sure has the all the info


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They don't have infinite learning and there is no O2 feedback in Openloop fueling. The ECU is strictly using the MAF's output. Cobb's website I'm sure has the all the info


Sent from my iPhone using Tapasquak
Cobbs does have all the info. They'll learn to a point where they can run safely on the stock tune, mistu is pretty good with that. But again subaru is pretty finicky and don't respond as well as mitsu does
 

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They don't have infinite learning and there is no O2 feedback in Openloop fueling. The ECU is strictly using the MAF's output. Cobb's website I'm sure has the all the info


Sent from my iPhone using Tapasquak
Cobbs does have all the info. They'll learn to a point where they can run safely on the stock tune, mistu is pretty good with that. But again subaru is pretty finicky and don't respond as well as mitsu does
Nsibanez, what Donkey is trying to say is that no, our cars do not learn over time like some other cars do. He is also stating that essentially, while in OL fueling the car has no ability to make corrections for an incorrect A/F ratio.

OP, running any cold air intake or ram air intake on our cars without the proper MAF scaling, for said intake, will result in the car receiving more or less air than it thinks, depending on the size of the new intake at the MAF sensor. In the end it is your decision, but without the proper MAF scaling (tune) the car will not run properly, and more times than not will result in you needing a new short block sometime in the frame of 0-24 months. This is something SOA will be unwilling to cover under factory warranty, so those expensive repairs will be all out of your pocket. All of this for a little bit of sound improvement seems a little silly to me. Waiting for the money and doing this the proper way will not only give you the sound that you want but it will also save you money in the future AND give you a fairly noticeable power increase.
 

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Here is my question:

Given what we know about the way data are used in open loop, why would an intake that works without a tune be useful?

It seems that if an intake doesn't require a tune, there is no reason to use that intake.

Am I incorrect?
 

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The only car I know that uses full CL is the R35 Nissan GTR

I've studied Mitsubishi's implementation in the Evo. They use fuel trims just as Subaru.
 

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Like everyone says don't just bolt on without a tune even if the intake manufacturer says its safe. I highly doubt they will shell out the money to fix your engine if something were to go wrong with it.

The cheapest option if you have a laptop or access to one is save money or borrow a tactrix cable, get a laptop, a preferably catted downpipe and an Etune. If you dont have a laptop and or are afraid to use a tactrix look for an Access port and then downpipe. You will have more fun with Stage 2 rather then just Stage 1 with an intake. I can understand how you will want the sound but the stock airbox is fine.
 

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The Jedi Ninja
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Here is my question:

Given what we know about the way data are used in open loop, why would an intake that works without a tune be useful?

It seems that if an intake doesn't require a tune, there is no reason to use that intake.

Am I incorrect?
Yes this makes sense.
Adding the Intake without the tune is really asking for trouble in our finicky cars.
Once I installed my Cobb SF, I switched maps with my AP before I even started the car.
You should invest in a Cobb Acess Port, an open source tune, or a protune once you have the parts you want.
 

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BooSTIng
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You know back when I had my 08 wrx, I ran a Perrin cai for about 6 months without a tune. Perrin "claimed" that their intake did not require a tune. Hind sight is always 20/20. I have been into subaru's since I was young. And had my first one when I was 19. However, I just recently, within the last 2 years, have really been getting into the technical/tuning/engine management side of things and realized that I was wrong with alot of the old things I used to do to my subarus.(i.e. running an intake without a proper tune) Throughout all of this I have became much more knowledgable about these cars and find myself receiving phone calls and messages from friends all the time on help with their new wrx or sti. It feels good to help people modify their new car the right way and keep their car healthy all while sharing my knowledge with them to pass on one day. And I must say a good bit of my knowledge has came from you guys on here. So thanks alot for that.

Basically OP, if you want to run an intake, get the proper tune for it and listen to the advise given on here. People like myself, townline, and many others are always here to help, then you have SD, Zax, Donkey, and too many to name on here that are 10x more knowledgable than we are. We are here to help!
 

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Nsibanez, what Donkey is trying to say is that no, our cars do not learn over time like some other cars do. He is also stating that essentially, while in OL fueling the car has no ability to make corrections for an incorrect A/F ratio.
Well they do learn,just like any other car,but in closedloop only. And the learning corrections are not infinite. The issue is Openloop fueling,as everyone has mentioned. If the closed loop correction across the board are 10-15% off you can pretty much bet the AFR will be off that much in Openloop.
 

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Here is my question:

Given what we know about the way data are used in open loop, why would an intake that works without a tune be useful?

It seems that if an intake doesn't require a tune, there is no reason to use that intake.

Am I incorrect?
They way I look at it is this. Lets say you have the stock intake and an aftermarket one. They both produce the same fueling trims with the same MAF scaling. You use a datalogger to log rpm,engine load and MAF flow (grams per second) and do a WOT third gear run with both from 2500 rpm to redline. If the intake is improving flow/increasing hp then you will see higher MAF g/s and engine load at the same rpm as the stock intake. If not then no improvement has been made.
 

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Cobbs does have all the info. They'll learn to a point where they can run safely on the stock tune, mistu is pretty good with that. But again subaru is pretty finicky and don't respond as well as mitsu does
This is directly from Cobb's website...........

"All aftermarket intakes for 08+ Subarus require tuning, regardless of manufacturer, in order to ensure the MAF sensor reads properly and the engine operates within safe parameters."

COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake Kit
 

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This is directly from Cobb's website...........

"All aftermarket intakes for 08+ Subarus require tuning, regardless of manufacturer, in order to ensure the MAF sensor reads properly and the engine operates within safe parameters."

COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake Kit
I know, I've read their site a few times. Literally everything is listed, including a map note using the stock air box they say to use the stock filter
 

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They way I look at it is this. Lets say you have the stock intake and an aftermarket one. They both produce the same fueling trims with the same MAF scaling. You use a datalogger to log rpm,engine load and MAF flow (grams per second) and do a WOT third gear run with both from 2500 rpm to redline. If the intake is improving flow/increasing hp then you will see higher MAF g/s and engine load at the same rpm as the stock intake. If not then no improvement has been made.
That makes sense to me. Nice, thanks.
 

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I know, I've read their site a few times. Literally everything is listed, including a map note using the stock air box they say to use the stock filter
Well that is opposite of what you said yes? You pretty much said it would be fine with out a tune and Cobb is saying it needs a tune. So what were you saying?
 

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No I wasn't talking about subarus. I was trying to further specify they're picky and need tunes.
Sorry
Technically a Subaru is no different from any other car.

Only some cars are MAP fueled.
 
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