[Jackstand Johnny]

2002 WRX 4EAT. Been running an OTS Cobb stage 2 tune for almost 2 years now. Well today I got my protune and Im less than thrilled. Before I go further all the mods and details I mention were all done by the tuner recommendations and was tuned on a Dynojet dyno. So all in all my WHP came out to 205. It feels more sluggish and Im still getting feedback knock corrections as high(or low really) of -6.xx. Also my AF learning is still reaching past +8%. Please keep in mind that this is by far the most reputable and well known shop around me for a hundred miles. Today they installed a Deatschwerks DW200 fuel pump and Grimmspeed 3 port EBCS before the tune. Stock turbo, injectors and intercooler. Heres a list of mods related to my tune:

-STi up pipe
-Full 3" turbo back with catted DP
-Cobb SF intake and airbox
-Cobb post maf hose
-Silicone intercooler y pipe and TB coupler
-DW200 fuel pump
-GS 3 port EBCS
-NGK +1 step colder iridium spark plugs

So my car spend a couple hours on the dyno and then I had over an hour of just highway driving home. But the biggest isssues I noticed was that it felt way more sluggish below 3k rpm, my AF learning 1 is still out of spec, I didnt see any knock events for the first 45 ,in but a big one showed up of -6.xx and my fine knock pearning was still going off with lower values. I know my 4eat eats up power, but doesnt 205hp and about 197 lbs of tq seem low? It also only hits 17 lbs of boost but I figured that was fine because I wanted to keep a decent safety margin. But I was really expecting more hp and toqrue from this. Oh and I noticed my tripometer didnt reset so would that not reset if the ecu was reset from the Accessport? Or should I reset my ecu and let it learn again? Will that do any good? It sucks because I spent almost a year and a LOT of money repairing things, having lots of tests done, paying for and adding parts I wasnt expecting to have to buy and risking exploding my car on a dyno for a protune and I feel like it fell a bit short. Anyone with a 4eat and a protune wanna chime in? Thanks in advance for the input.

 

[Jackstand Johnny]

I should also note that when I say it feels sluggish I mean that it feels slower now than it did with my ots tune(until boost kicks in at least) and the temp was around 72 in the shop, maybe 76 outside and Im at sea level. Will the tripometer reset when you reset the ecu at the accesport? Lastly(for now) I want to add that I am in no way disappointed with my tuner. The entire crew are good people who have done excellent work, been very accomodating and make me feel at home. My feelings and questions about my car and protune in no way is a poor reflection on them. Oh and LASTLY lastly, they did not lockout the TC to keep the trans in 3rd gear. It was shifted through the gears from 1-3. I have video of this and I am 100% sure of this. I know that will cause variations and might give a false reading. Thank you again for your time.

 

[Jackstand Johnny]

Ok its official, theres something wrong. Im only hitting 6-8 lbs of boost. Cars not pulling at all. Its gutless all the way through the powerband. The 3 port isnt holding boost like it should either. It only hits about 6.5 lbs of boost on average and then starts to die if I even out the throttle. This is a big drop compared to the average 13-16 lbs Id make under the same conditions. Gonna have to make the long trek back up there and show the gang whats going on. All my boost lines and hoses look fine. Something is definitely wrong though. Could be the tune, could be the 3 port ebcs, could be that the dyno destroyed my rings? I dunno well see. Ill post up with any updates.

 

[MainFrame]

Who tuned it?

 

[4EverMetal]

Sounds like you need to go back to the tuner and tell them your not satisfied with tune.

 

[mjmwrx]

Sorry to hear man. No offense but I always find it odd to hear about all kinds of time effort and money going into vehicles to produce a car that still isn't "fast".

 

[Mikie13]

Sounds like your boost controller maybe lost a hose or something...if you see 6-8lbs of boost, that's wastegate pressure.

I'd take it back to the shop and tell them to troubleshoot it since something's not right.

 

[MainFrame]

Sounds like your boost controller maybe lost a hose or something...if you see 6-8lbs of boost, that's wastegate pressure.

I'd take it back to the shop and tell them to troubleshoot it since something's not right.

I'm thinking limp mode.

 

[Jackstand Johnny]

UPDATES!!! So I called my tuner and they had me drive up there for them to take a look. Super bisy day but they made time pretty early for me. I couldnt onlyhit 10 lbs but the tuner came back and told me it was all good tand He hit target boost. HERES THE IMPORTANT PART: He explained that His tune is set up where at half throttle Id only see 8 lbs. Peak boost wont happen unless I basically very quickly go wOT. NOT my driving style at all. Remember, I have an automatic. So what it boils down to is He set up the tune like He does for most of the people that show up there. They drive like pissed off teenagers. So the tune just doesnt fit my driving style.

So thats it. My car is perfectly sound and the tune just doesnt reflect jy driving habits. Ill be going back next week and were gonna work together on a street tune after He watches how I drive and I explain what Im looking for. Its currently set more like an on/off switch. I am very deliberate in my control inputs and need a car that directly applies those inputs. Thats all it is. I know exactly why He did it now. Its to keep me from wrapping my wrx around a tree. Tuners have to assume that a lot of people will let their car get away from them. Now to reply to some comments...


Mainframe- I didnt mention the tuner because I did not want anyone thinking I was draghing them through the mud. The tuners name isnt important but I will say that aside from a little frustration, I have never lost faith or trust in my tuner. Theyre all great people and its a very well known and reputable shop around here.

4EverMetal- Excellent advice and thats exactly what I did. The plan was never to just cry about it on the internet and leave it be. I did more preparation than most to ready my car for its protune and while I obviously know that things happen, I expected to be left totally satisfied with my business dealings and I am now confident I ultimately will be.

MGMWRX- I dont think ANYONE sets out to spend lots of ,oney to make their car slower. This was certainly not my, nor the tuners intention. But you need to understand thats a protune is not about just making loads more power. Its about making the tune SAFER for the engine. At least for anyone who values a dollar. So its just a matter of finding a happy medium and taking calculated risks.

Mikie13- The very first thing I did was inspect all my boost lines and intercooler hoses etc. I knew the engine ran great and didnt see any issues so I knew my next course of action was to have the tuner check into it. Thank you for the input though. Technical advice in a crisis is always well appreciated.

Oh and lastly I did manage to squeeze 14 lbs of boost out of it today, but it took a lot of effort in my opinion. After speaking with the head tuner today Im pretty sure well find a tune thats right for me even with the very constricting stoco turbo and intercooler. I was supposed to buy an STi intercooler semi locally for $150 to be installed for the protune but the seller woupdnt budge an inch on meeting me and I didnt have time. So unfortunately a larger intercooler will have to wait until I scrounge up a couple more parts so Im getting the most value out of the $150 cost of another tune. Im also not looking forward to putting my baby on the dyno again so it may never happen, which is very unfortunate...especially if I cook my TD04 because the stock TMIC cant keep up. Thank you all for your concern and opinions. Updates coming...

 

[MainFrame]

His tune is set up where at half throttle Id only see 8 lbs. Peak boost wont happen unless I basically very quickly go wOT.

That's how most tunes are set up.. partial throttle full boost (PTFB) is normally a situation you want to avoid. And to be honest, I don't see why you would want full boost at half throttle.. if you want full power, you should mash the gas all the way to the floor. That's how it works with nearly every car.

 

[Jackstand Johnny]

I can tell you right now that you dont just mash the pedal down on a turbocharged car. That is how you get crazy lag. This is especially so on an automatic. My OTS Cobb tune was much more responsive and would give me more boost with less throttle load. I never said I wanted full boost at partial throttle, but I do not like that Im dont make more than 10 lbs until the last 2% of the gas pedal. Different people have different driving styles and different transmissions need different tunes. I am driving around with a tune meant for a different person. Thats about it. I was told theres a lot we can do to change my tune for me so well see what happens this week. Ill report back either happy with my new tune or earing crow with my tail between my legs.

 

[MainFrame]

I can tell you right now that you dont just mash the pedal down on a turbocharged car. That is how you get crazy lag. This is especially so on an automatic. My OTS Cobb tune was much more responsive and would give me more boost with less throttle load. I never said I wanted full boost at partial throttle, but I do not like that Im dont make more than 10 lbs until the last 2% of the gas pedal. Different people have different driving styles and different transmissions need different tunes. I am driving around with a tune meant for a different person. Thats about it. I was told theres a lot we can do to change my tune for me so well see what happens this week. Ill report back either happy with my new tune or earing crow with my tail between my legs.

I dunno.. the fastest way to hit boost threshold in my car has always been hitting WOT as quickly as possible (good launch control can help, but slipping the clutch and WOT has been better for me). Although my car is a manual, so maybe that has something to do with it. My 06 Forester has the 4eat, and it is the laggiest automatic transmission I have ever driven. If I were taking off from a rolling start I could hit boost a little faster by left foot braking and slowly increasing throttle until the car was in positive boost, then release the brake and WOT simultaneously.

Glad the hear the tuner has no problem working with you to get it set up more how you want.

 

[Jackstand Johnny]

Mine being an automatic has almost EVERYTHING to do with it. I got my retune done today and GOOD LORD itsa different machine alltogether! I went for an hour drive with my tuner and He was able to tailor fit it to my driving style. You definitely cant mash the pedal down on it now. You gotta understand that with an automatic I cant keep it in a specific gear to maintain power within a certain rpm range. You get what you get until it shifts. Also youve gotta be more deliberate with the throttle. So now where I was making 8 psi I am now making 12.5. Where I was making 11 psi i am now making almost 17. 99.9999999990% of the time I dont put the pedal to the floor and if I were to jump straight to that, the ecu will show ke how much it doesnt appreciate it. This probably sounds insane to yall with the 5MT or 6MT, but its a much better fit for me. I did get some surging earlier when I had to lay on it much harder than I ever do and I watched my boost gauges jump back and forth with the car doing the same. It didnt take me long to get the hang of it. Again, this is a VERY well known and reputable tuner and if he tells me its safe, Im believing Him. I wont name names but theyve been at this since the USDM WRX came out and are old friends with arguably the most famous Subaru forum member of all time. So I am comfortable and confident so far. The weather was garbage today so a solid spirited drive as soon as I get a clear day will let me know for sure. Thanks for reading.

 

[MainFrame]

Mine being an automatic has almost EVERYTHING to do with it. I got my retune done today and GOOD LORD itsa different machine alltogether! I went for an hour drive with my tuner and He was able to tailor fit it to my driving style. You definitely cant mash the pedal down on it now. You gotta understand that with an automatic I cant keep it in a specific gear to maintain power within a certain rpm range. You get what you get until it shifts. Also youve gotta be more deliberate with the throttle. So now where I was making 8 psi I am now making 12.5. Where I was making 11 psi i am now making almost 17. 99.9999999990% of the time I dont put the pedal to the floor and if I were to jump straight to that, the ecu will show ke how much it doesnt appreciate it. This probably sounds insane to yall with the 5MT or 6MT, but its a much better fit for me. I did get some surging earlier when I had to lay on it much harder than I ever do and I watched my boost gauges jump back and forth with the car doing the same. It didnt take me long to get the hang of it. Again, this is a VERY well known and reputable tuner and if he tells me its safe, Im believing Him. I wont name names but theyve been at this since the USDM WRX came out and are old friends with arguably the most famous Subaru forum member of all time. So I am comfortable and confident so far. The weather was garbage today so a solid spirited drive as soon as I get a clear day will let me know for sure. Thanks for reading.

Sounds great! I can see what you're saying about the automatic now. In my Forester (with the same 4eat).. say you're approaching a light and it turns yellow. If you gun it, the car will actually pause for about a second and a half, no power to the ground. It will then down shift a gear, begin to engage the gear, then pause again, and downshift once more. By this point you've already rolled through the intersection basically as if the car were in neutral; instead of accelerating the instant you hit the gas.


Makes sense in the auto w/turbo.. driving an auto, often times you want to push the throttle just hard enough that it doesn't downshift; then you can accelerate without pausing three or four seconds for the car to make up it's mind about what gear it wants to be in (plus you're not revving the **** out of your engine in traffic, which is a big bonus to me). Since you're controlling the gearing via throttle input, it could be useful to tune higher boost targets for parts of the table with more moderate throttle opening angles. That way you can have more power available in situations where you don't necessarily want the car to downshift. :thumbup:

 

[Mikie13]

Glad it worked out for you and glad that you didn't have any actual issues!

It's cool that the Tuner made it a point to work with you on it and get you exactly where you wanted to be. Kind of a bummer he didn't do it in the first place, but that he went back and helped you out. Good customer service there. Best of luck with your car!

 

[Blue15WRX1]

Glad it worked out for you and glad that you didn't have any actual issues!

It's cool that the Tuner made it a point to work with you on it and get you exactly where you wanted to be. Kind of a bummer he didn't do it in the first place, but that he went back and helped you out. Good customer service there. Best of luck with your car!

I agree after spending all that money I'm glad they helped you out