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Discussion Starter #1
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ford-promises-more-savings-as-1q-earnings-rise-9-percent/2018/04/25/b9f4bde0-48cb-11e8-8082-105a446d19b8_story.html?utm_term=.552ddc331221

Wow. I don't know where this leaves the Focus ST and RS, but it's hard to believe they're getting rid of the Fiesta, Fusion and Taurus.

I'm a bit curmudgeonly in my old age--have had quite a few crossovers and SUV's, but still think a good ole sedan will meet the needs of 90% of the driving public.

Of course I have a WRX sedan. If they made a new hatch, I'd consider it, but personally I'm looking forward to the new concept design for the sedan for 2020. Looks sleek.
 

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The industry is moving to those compact suv things that are too small to be useful as an actual suv and too large to be actually economical.

Essentially until fuel prices take off again the truck and suv market is going to dominate all. If I had to judge just from development parts I’ve seen roll through in the last year I would assume most American companies are moving the same direction.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I've had a couple of smaller SUV's and a full-size truck. They have their places of course, and thank gosh technology has improved fuel economy significantly.

But...

Most people don't need them. In the 90's I lived in central Kansas in the suburbs, and every one of my neighbors had a large truck or SUV. Virtually no one ever used them for their intended purpose.

(After we sold the truck we "get by" with a sedan and mini-SUV, and on the rare occasions we have to haul large items we pay for delivery or rent a van from U-Haul. This happens about 3-4 times a year.)

Anybody with any sense would bet that fuel economy standards will tighten over the next few decades, regardless of current government policy.And when fuel prices go up, as could easily happen (hmmm what if Israel and Iran get in a real war in the Middle East?) the manufacturers will be in a pickle. Maybe no one remembers the gas wars of the 70's...

I guess I don't understand why the average person won't settle for a sedan which will fill 99% of their needs at less cost for them and for the environment.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
On a slight tangent I'm kinda excited about the BMW X2--almost a shooting brake. If the sedan is passe', at least small SUV's and crossovers will take their place with minimal burden. And personally I like small trucks like the Tacoma and Colorado--would love to see them be more popular.
 

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I guess I don't understand why the average person won't settle for a sedan which will fill 99% of their needs at less cost for them and for the environment.

betting its the "I want to feel safe so I need something bigger than what you have" playing a roll as well.
 

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American brand sedans are not selling as much compare to Asian ones. I wont be surprise if Chevy does the same thing also.
 

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American brand sedans are not selling as much compare to Asian ones. I wont be surprise if Chevy does the same thing also.
I think its bigger than just american cars. New Accords and Civics are stacking up like firewood on Honda lots.
 

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Yeah, I don't get the move to eliminate all of those models for the market. But I may be stuck in an outdated perception or something.

This debate has gone on over and over, through the years, but there is actually a case for having a mid-sized or perhaps larger SUV, if you have multiple kids and are a homeowner. You reach a point, if you're an active family, where you need to transport lots of kids places, do carpool, etc, and if you have a sedan, you're constantly begging others to do the transporting for you. Much easier if you have it covered, can put all of their crap in the back, etc. Then you go to Lowes for 5 bales of straw, yeah, that's not going in my Camaro, or my old WRX. Fit fine in our van or Santa Fe. Added to it, our kids are into horses, so ground clearance becomes a concern at horse farms, etc.

So I don't judge now when I see a lone person driving a Suburban. Who knows what they have going on.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
To me what Ford is doing is kind of like saying, Apple and Google are doing well now, I'm going to sell all my other stocks and just buy Apple and Google. Short-sighted.

I don't hate on people driving trucks or SUV's for the most part, though I can be judgmental in some cases...everyone should buy a car that fits their needs. A soccer mom with 2 kids doesn't need a Suburban or an X5 or those ginormous SUV's from Lexus and Mercedes. A guy on my midtown block who's not into landscaping or pulling a camper doesn't need a huge V8 truck.

Convincing everyone in Middle America they need a large SUV or a heavy-duty truck is some kinda crazy marketing.

That said, when my 4 kids were younger I had minivans but would have loved to have had an SUV with a 3rd row like the Pilot or Ascent. They just weren't around at the time.

I would be sad if Chevy and the Japanese makers followed suit, because the current Impala and Accord and Camry are some of the finest, most reliable family cars ever made.
 

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.everyone should buy a car that fits their needs. A soccer mom with 2 kids doesn't need a Suburban or an X5 or those ginormous SUV's from Lexus and Mercedes. A guy on my midtown block who's not into landscaping or pulling a camper doesn't need a huge V8 truck.

Convincing everyone in Middle America they need a large SUV or a heavy-duty truck is some kinda crazy marketing.
We're at odds, these days..I disagree with this sentiment. "Everyone should buy a car that fits their needs, and I shall be the judge!"..LOL. I don't "need" a Camaro SS, you don't "need" a WRX..etc. A soccer mom that you're judging in traffic may have all sorts of other activities going on that you can't be aware of, that justifies it. I went through it in the previous post, but it apparently fell on deaf ears. You like the Pilot, but don't like the Suburban..add your kids' friends to the mix, if they're active, as mine were/are, and suddenly that vehicle makes all sorts of sense.
 

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At this point I wouldn’t count on many companies having a large variety of non suvs for the us market. In reality ford has the production power and plants to support near instant production changes. They are capable of tooling up for an entirely new product in a day if they have enough foresight to have the tooling and equipment ready for change over in advance.

Most companies just buy everything from a third party. Many third parties sell parts, tools, and equipment between each other. We supply many of our competitors as well as buy a fair amount of equipment, tooling, and parts from them. We recently acquired a company that handles most of the tooling for making body and chassis components for us and all of our competitors. We can retool all of our machines to make completely different vehicle chassis components in a few hours and begin shipping parts within a 9-5 work day and only need about 40 days of lead time to make all the tooling from scratch.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Of course I'm judgmental! As the Good Book says, "Be ye either hot or cold, but be ye lukewarm and I will spew you out," or words to that effect...

You Ray "deserve" a Camaro SS because you are a car guy, experienced, and can appreciate it for the beautiful machine that it is. That would be wasted on a 16-year-old spoiled kid or an 80-year-old grandma--agreed?

The better you are as an artist or aficionado the more you can appreciate more refined (and expensive) tools. I "deserve" a used Tele or Gibson 135, both of which I have--I do not "deserve" a Gibson Le Grande because my skills do not justify it.

A mom or dad with only 2 kids does not need a huge SUV. It's wasteful. Nowhere except in America would this be considered acceptable.

If one has 4 kids, a Suburban does make sense. I had 4 kids and drove a minivan, our good friends had 4 then 5 (late surprise) kids and had a Suburban. Both worked just fine, mine just got twice the gas mileage and was cheaper to maintain.
 

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Of course I'm judgmental! ......
Ha! I suppose I'll agree that we deserve our cars, and we'll agree to disagree on the rest..all good.. :wiggles:
 

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No picking on DOC, but IMO This whole "no one needs a.." is complete bull****. That is someone else's opinion. Its up to the individual as to what they "need", not the collective hoard or the govt or anyone else. Its also up to the individual to buy what they WANT. You start down that slippery slope and where does it end? who gets to decide what YOU "need". Screw that. The 80 yr old grandma may have been a car girl all her life and wants to go out on a high note. My aunt drove Trans Am's from 1972 until they stopped making them in 2000?. She sold her last one in 2006 (she was 70). Now she drives a CTS-V coupe. You'd be surprised at the number of 60-70+ yr olds driving and racing Hellcats and other High HP cars.

Buy/drive what you want/like, be happy and whoever doesn't like it can have their own opinion and are welcome to it but tough s*t if they dont like it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You know, one of the problems with this country is people afraid of being judgmental.

There are needs and wants. I need a reliable car with at least 2 doors, a parent with 2 kids needs at least a 4-seater. Beyond that, it's all wants.

A Suburban is a wasteful vehicle. Too big, too expensive, too gas-guzzling. If you have 4 kids and are planning to pull a boat, it makes "sense," but otherwise it's probably just to show off how much vehicle you can afford in your driveway. It's like a 5000-square foot house. It's legal, but it's not free from scorn.

My latter point wasn't to say older people shouldn't be able to drive whatever they want if they're into that thing. It's just that most of them are not, and it's silly to say the average 16-year-old or 80-year-old should or would want to get behind the wheel of a Hellcat for instance.

My mom, bless her heart, is 84. She drives a Ford Fusion, which kind of makes my point about the sad demise of the sedan. Maybe if I win the lottery I will buy her the Cadillac I know she would love. I don't expect her to burn rubber in it, though.
 

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No picking on DOC, but IMO This whole "no one needs a.." is complete bull****. That is someone else's opinion. Its up to the individual as to what they "need", not the collective hoard or the govt or anyone else. Its also up to the individual to buy what they WANT. You start down that slippery slope and where does it end? who gets to decide what YOU "need". Screw that. The 80 yr old grandma may have been a car girl all her life and wants to go out on a high note. My aunt drove Trans Am's from 1972 until they stopped making them in 2000?. She sold her last one in 2006 (she was 70). Now she drives a CTS-V coupe. You'd be surprised at the number of 60-70+ yr olds driving and racing Hellcats and other High HP cars.

Buy/drive what you want/like, be happy and whoever doesn't like it can have their own opinion and are welcome to it but tough s*t if they dont like it.
I know one who is approaching his mid-60s with a current NASA log book and HPDE events booked in May and July.
 

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No picking on DOC, but IMO This whole "no one needs a.." is complete bull****. That is someone else's opinion. Its up to the individual as to what they "need", not the collective hoard or the govt or anyone else. Its also up to the individual to buy what they WANT. You start down that slippery slope and where does it end? who gets to decide what YOU "need". Screw that. The 80 yr old grandma may have been a car girl all her life and wants to go out on a high note. My aunt drove Trans Am's from 1972 until they stopped making them in 2000?. She sold her last one in 2006 (she was 70). Now she drives a CTS-V coupe. You'd be surprised at the number of 60-70+ yr olds driving and racing Hellcats and other High HP cars.
Buy/drive what you want/like, be happy and whoever doesn't like it can have their own opinion and are welcome to it but tough s*t if they dont like it.
Agree!

You know, one of the problems with this country is people afraid of being judgmental.
Honestly, it's just a waste of valuable life energy, to sit around approving and disapproving of others. Not really about being afraid. Judgmental people are generally very unhappy people, in my experience. I've resolved to be a "Happy Old Man", as I age, rather than a curmudgeon. You mileage may vary... :wiggles:
 

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lol these thread conversations are hilarious -

fake news is fake -

fewer people today care about performance cars or even owning vehicles than in the past - people view owning a vehicle as a chore - it is both far easier and cheaper to just carpool or take public transportation than having a car that you drive daily and have in your name - there are very few areas where you really "need" a car nowadays -

looking at the market I never understood why someone would buy an American economy sedan over a Japanese economy sedan - they are simply cheaper to own and more reliable - speaking in just general terms though -

a lot of articles about this topic have far too many opinions to be taken seriously -

our market is moving towards cars that are cheaper and cheaper to own while being both more reliable and fuel efficient (electric / hybrid / better MPG programming / etc) or just easier to drive and own - certain things die out - being a car enthusiast is dying out -

we are seeing many car manufacturers shifting to focus (or at least trying to focus) on different markets and demographics - look at Lamborghini and Porsche and Maserati and so on - the funny thing is looking at all these nonsense "cross overs" and "economy mid range sport luxury sedans" or "super car SUV's" lol -

this is a good thread though - I like interesting topics -

it's important to live with both being positive but also always questioning every fact or statement you hear so you're not oblivious -

[ [ [ wrote this with a weird voice/screen program on a work computer, hence the strange format ] ] ]
 

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I really miss the 4X4 Ford sedans!

 
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