External Wastegate
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wont do you much good installing it in your engine.. you might want to install it on your turbo for best results.
Oh yea well that, I've already got a bov but it was already installed when I purchased the car. Was jus wondering though, don't know if it is suitable to the type of turbo I have or even needs to be, which is a stock turbo. Thanks though
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Oh haha I'm the biggest noob when it comes to cars, that being said you talking about full recirculating ?? Clueless about what that means lol i want a wastegate cause of the sound. Always wanted it, just don't know what the difference is between external and internal yet.
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2,100 Posts
i dont have much to add other than my original snarky comment and some advice to browse through the sub-forums and read through some of the stickies to educate yourself a little bit. modding for "sound" often results in the sound of bearings slapping around inside your engine.. not a good sound.
here are a few to get you started:
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/engin...here-all-bov-question-threads-get-merged.html
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/engine-modifications/134325261-first-modifications-what-do-not-do.html
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/tunin...t-2-turbocharger-101-basic-boost-control.html
welcome to the club, BTW!! :wiggles:
here are a few to get you started:
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/engin...here-all-bov-question-threads-get-merged.html
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/engine-modifications/134325261-first-modifications-what-do-not-do.html
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/tunin...t-2-turbocharger-101-basic-boost-control.html
welcome to the club, BTW!! :wiggles:
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22,140 Posts
You said you "know very little about cars", so I'm going to tailor this response based on that information. The prices I'm listing are for parts only. If you're not going to DIY install, consider the $100/hr labor rate that is going to be factored in, and add significantly to these prices...
To add an EWG setup to your car, you would need the following (at a minimum):
1) New uppipe
2) Wastegate
3) ECU calibration
You're looking $1000+ for that to be done.
Of all the years of WRX, 2008 is the "black sheep" year that they were produced. Unless you only care about sound (not bang/buck), you really should be looking at a new turbo (e.g., VF52 takeoff from an '09-14). You can install an EWG on a VF52 turbo too, so if you're going to go that route, make sure you spend the money wisely. You would be looking at (in addition to the other three items) while you were there:
1) New turbo
2) New turbo inlet. Factory inlets are known for failures, so while you had the turbo out of your car, you should replace the unit with a silicone unit that isn't.
3) Aftermarket boost control. You're having to retune all the boost tables anyway, may as well add a more precise method of boost control.
That just added $300-400 for #2/#3, before even considering the cost of the turbo (do you go with a used take-off, go aftermarket, etc.). You'd get better ROI from these three plus the calibration vs throwing an EWG setup at your stock turbo (you wouldn't need the aftermarket boost control, so you could save yourself $100 or so there, but you'd be retuning the boost tables, so you should include it in the build).
Here's where other items come into play:
1) Intake. You're replacing part of the intake tract, you're doing recalibration, you should consider an intake as well at this time.
2) Injectors. Your factory injectors will be at their limit with a new turbo, so you should really consider going with larger injectors for additional headroom and/or the ability to add E85 fuel into the mix (additional ECU calibration charge).
3) Fuel pump. You will need a better fuel pump to adequately supply the new injectors.
4) Intercooler. The plastic endtanks on the OE unit are known for having issues. With the additional power you're going to be adding, you should be considering a replacement unit, which, if chosen properly, will add more power, more safety margin, or a combination of the two.
5) BOV/BPV. If the valve on your car is a crappy unit, or hasn't been properly setup/maintained, it's leaking.
6) Gauges. You want to be able to monitor what's going on with your vehicle. Because you're using it to monitor for issues, you shouldn't buy cheap gauges, so factor in $200/gauge plus pods to house them in.
There's another $2000+
Do you have a "safety net" fund for if the motor takes a crap? A new shortblock is ~$2K from Subaru, then another $1K in other parts to replace while you've got the motor apart, assuming there isn't damage to the heads.
The difference between internal and external wastegates is where you're bypassing the exhaust gas; internal is in the turbo itself, external is prior to it getting to the turbo.
TL;DR: Really do the math on what you are willing/able to spend on the car. Don't get me wrong, an atmospheric-dump EWG is a fun sound. The issue is that it will not really help you without a bunch of other supporting modifications, and that makes your car like the regular Japanese econobox (e.g., Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Nissan Sentra) with a fart can: a joke.
To add an EWG setup to your car, you would need the following (at a minimum):
1) New uppipe
2) Wastegate
3) ECU calibration
You're looking $1000+ for that to be done.
Of all the years of WRX, 2008 is the "black sheep" year that they were produced. Unless you only care about sound (not bang/buck), you really should be looking at a new turbo (e.g., VF52 takeoff from an '09-14). You can install an EWG on a VF52 turbo too, so if you're going to go that route, make sure you spend the money wisely. You would be looking at (in addition to the other three items) while you were there:
1) New turbo
2) New turbo inlet. Factory inlets are known for failures, so while you had the turbo out of your car, you should replace the unit with a silicone unit that isn't.
3) Aftermarket boost control. You're having to retune all the boost tables anyway, may as well add a more precise method of boost control.
That just added $300-400 for #2/#3, before even considering the cost of the turbo (do you go with a used take-off, go aftermarket, etc.). You'd get better ROI from these three plus the calibration vs throwing an EWG setup at your stock turbo (you wouldn't need the aftermarket boost control, so you could save yourself $100 or so there, but you'd be retuning the boost tables, so you should include it in the build).
Here's where other items come into play:
1) Intake. You're replacing part of the intake tract, you're doing recalibration, you should consider an intake as well at this time.
2) Injectors. Your factory injectors will be at their limit with a new turbo, so you should really consider going with larger injectors for additional headroom and/or the ability to add E85 fuel into the mix (additional ECU calibration charge).
3) Fuel pump. You will need a better fuel pump to adequately supply the new injectors.
4) Intercooler. The plastic endtanks on the OE unit are known for having issues. With the additional power you're going to be adding, you should be considering a replacement unit, which, if chosen properly, will add more power, more safety margin, or a combination of the two.
5) BOV/BPV. If the valve on your car is a crappy unit, or hasn't been properly setup/maintained, it's leaking.
6) Gauges. You want to be able to monitor what's going on with your vehicle. Because you're using it to monitor for issues, you shouldn't buy cheap gauges, so factor in $200/gauge plus pods to house them in.
There's another $2000+
Do you have a "safety net" fund for if the motor takes a crap? A new shortblock is ~$2K from Subaru, then another $1K in other parts to replace while you've got the motor apart, assuming there isn't damage to the heads.
A wastegate is used to bypass airflow from the turbine wheel to help regulate boost. A turbo builds boost based on the exhaust gases that are coming out of the engine.tuapola93 said:
The difference between internal and external wastegates is where you're bypassing the exhaust gas; internal is in the turbo itself, external is prior to it getting to the turbo.
TL;DR: Really do the math on what you are willing/able to spend on the car. Don't get me wrong, an atmospheric-dump EWG is a fun sound. The issue is that it will not really help you without a bunch of other supporting modifications, and that makes your car like the regular Japanese econobox (e.g., Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Nissan Sentra) with a fart can: a joke.
Hey ej257 so sound I was talking about was the flutter none of this external wastegate nonsense (just learnt something new) so I have a bov that I'm going to tighten and soon going to buy a pod filter, would you suggest that for a pigeon noise ?? Also I've got plastic pipe not aluminium
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What is a pigeon noise? If you are talking about the choochoochoo you hear in a rally car you don't want that. It's compressor surge. That's what happens where there is no bypass valve and the throttle plate slams shut while under positive manifold pressure. The air is being smashed off the throttle plate and forced back through the turbo in reverse.
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my best guess as to "flutter noise" is maybe he means the type of exhaust sound that an AMG Mercedes produces? that type of flutter? idk, that was just my first thought
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Ok. So no offense tuapola93, but you really need to just sit back and read and learn before you start buying parts for your wrx. Nothing wrong with not knowing, we all started there. But buying random parts trying to hunt down a particular noise is going to A) cost you a lot of extra money down the road and B) possibly damage your engine if you aren't being tuned properly or buying parts like an atmospheric bov
Here is a list of some noises that are common on forced induction vehicles, and how or if you should try to attain them in your Subaru. I will address what I think this flutter noise is you are talking about.
External wastegate noise- This noise is created by having an external wastegate with a dump tube. Instead of the wastegate gases exiting through the downpipe/exhaust like that of the stock internally wastegated turbo, the external wastegate is before the turbo and the exhaust gases are exited via a dump tube prior to the turboback exhaust. Thus making the noise.
Wastegate flutter- most of the time this is achieved by upgrading your stock 2 port boost control solenoid to an aftermarket 3-port electronic boost control solenoid. The sound is achieved by the boost control solenoid telling the wastegate to open and close quickly to prevent overboosting and staying within your target boost. By doing this it creates an audible flutter sound as the wastegate opens/closes
Turbo/suction noise- achieved by upgrading to an aftermarket intake. This allows you to hear the turbo spooling up. Intakes will also add a bit of a bov sound to your car.
Atmospheric blow of valve (bov)- this is one of those things you do not want to add to your stock turbo'd Subaru. Everyone knows the sound of a bov. But just don't throw one on your car to sound and look cool. Youll look like a clown if you have to replace your shortblock.
***every single item listed here is not including supporting mods that may be needed and all require protuning
Here is a list of some noises that are common on forced induction vehicles, and how or if you should try to attain them in your Subaru. I will address what I think this flutter noise is you are talking about.
External wastegate noise- This noise is created by having an external wastegate with a dump tube. Instead of the wastegate gases exiting through the downpipe/exhaust like that of the stock internally wastegated turbo, the external wastegate is before the turbo and the exhaust gases are exited via a dump tube prior to the turboback exhaust. Thus making the noise.
Wastegate flutter- most of the time this is achieved by upgrading your stock 2 port boost control solenoid to an aftermarket 3-port electronic boost control solenoid. The sound is achieved by the boost control solenoid telling the wastegate to open and close quickly to prevent overboosting and staying within your target boost. By doing this it creates an audible flutter sound as the wastegate opens/closes
Turbo/suction noise- achieved by upgrading to an aftermarket intake. This allows you to hear the turbo spooling up. Intakes will also add a bit of a bov sound to your car.
Atmospheric blow of valve (bov)- this is one of those things you do not want to add to your stock turbo'd Subaru. Everyone knows the sound of a bov. But just don't throw one on your car to sound and look cool. Youll look like a clown if you have to replace your shortblock.
***every single item listed here is not including supporting mods that may be needed and all require protuning
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3,438 Posts
Here to help you out and point you in the right direction. That's what forums are for. :thumbup:
Yea that noise, suu tu tu tu
I was told from a guy at work that all I've gotta do is tighten up the bov and add a pod filter. I've seen some more of the same information on the net. Just want to know if it'll do any damage to the turbo ? But thanks for your input bud. Appreciate it
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Yea bro, totally understand. So when I wrote about external wastegate I was totally wrong. I don't need that, the guy that looked at my engine said I've got an internal wastegate in there and also a BOV.
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15,792 Posts
I don't know, spin up a super precision turbine, spin it to 100k rpm then suddenly stop it.
Your friend is a tool, if he is who you are going to for advice I hope you have deep pockets. You need to remove the bov completely, put the factory bypass valve, or aftermarket recirculating valve on and be on your way. A pod filter I'm assuming is not in the knoe jargon for a cold air intake or short ram. Both require ECU remapping or certain engine failure is around the corner. Cobb only offers it's ots tunes for their brand. Anything else will require a dyno tune. So if that's worth 900+ the correct bypass valve then have at it
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Yeah man, your buddy that is giving you advice, knows nothing about your Subaru.......
Haha yea sweet man, thanks for that. What do you suggest I do to get the flutter noise without doing major damage ?
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