[jmdavis]

THis is the first time I’ve ever done a E-Tune on my 15 wrx just a general question how many revises does it normally take before the car is tuned correctly? This is my 5th revision and I’m still having to send logs because it’s not 100% yet idk to me I just feel that 6rev seems like an awful lot. Especially when I was worried and my AF learning 1 A1 number was negative -7.81 and I tried to ask them if that was normally before I done a wot and was told by the tuning company I needed to re-read the document I signed and basically in the document they tel you not to ask questions and don’t question your tuner and they are not here to teach you only to tune your car. Idk I feel if I have a concer after I paid you 300 dollars a simply yes or not it’s ok to do a wot is ok no damage will be done to your car. Any insight would be appreciated

 

[zax]

AF Learning will swing by a fair amount depending on ambient temperature, pressure, and various compensations. -7.81% is very normal. On my STI, -11% is not abnormal. My car is unmodified.

The response seems a bit rude, but also understandable. We live in an era where people really think that they know more than an expert (read: Dunning-Kruger effect) simply because they read an article online. It's my opinion that the datalogging ability of the AP is not a good feature for 90% of owners who seemingly question things based on AFR readouts and Feedback Knock events... of which they usually have limited knowledge. Not a slight against you, just a fact.

 

[jmdavis]

Ok I was just worried about that because prior to the tune that number always stayed 0.00

 

[zax]

Ok I was just worried about that because prior to the tune that number always stayed 0.00

That's not possible. There is always some variation in closed-loop injection modification. I suspect I know why you BELIEVE it was 0.00, but it would be quite the post to explain why that's unchanged.

 

[jmdavis]

Well I should say there is a possibility that that number changed but when the ap monitored it in the gauges that number never came off 0.00. Now I understand there is more than one AF learning the one that I was always showed on the gauges was the A1

 

[XJman]

I may be mistaken but if I recall from a ton of questions back when the fa20 was newer the engines tend to make more corrections and pull timing more often than the ej engines did and it wasn’t uncommon for people to see numbers all over the map including frequent changes to the dynamic advance multiplier.

 

[zax]

Well I should say there is a possibility that that number changed but when the ap monitored it in the gauges that number never came off 0.00. Now I understand there is more than one AF learning the one that I was always showed on the gauges was the A1

The ECU only applies an AF Learning correction to fueling IF the car is in closed-loop fueling mode. This means that any time you give the car sufficient throttle (there are other factors here, but I won't get into them), the AF Learning applied value goes to 0.0. This is probably what you were looking at before and will be the same now.

Also, to be pedantic here... it's POSSIBLE to read a 0.00 AF Learning in any of the cells, just unlikely to the point of improbable to see that same value all the time for any of the load cells.

 

[jmdavis]

Thanks for the input and he knowledge greatly appreciated. By far I don’t claim to have any knowledge in the tuning field or reading the data. Just when that had changed I was concerned. Lately I’d just been having a lot of issues appear with the DAM dropping from 1.00 to .313 I assume was bad gas but I had a lot of feedback knock and other various things which made me decide to go with a tune. It was recommended by another guy that had a STI that I get off Cobbs BigSF STAGE 1 Tune plus I knew I wanted to install some deletes. Thanks everyone for the help and knowledge I’m less worrried now that I realize that is normal.

 

[NewSubylvr]

I just finished up my E Tune and yes I had the same company do my tune ( Bren Tuning ) They're not big on explanations because they're super busy, having said that their turn around time for revisions is great. I sent them datalogs at night and the next day there's a new revision waiting. Don't be discouraged, the end result is worth the wait. OBTW it took six for me also.

 

[Eric13el]

If you are reading a drop in DAM and high knock numbers DO NOT do WOT pulls. Go get a pro tune. These engines are VERY delicate... and you WILL throw a rod. Stop screwing around with a $300 e-tune and spend another $200 on a pro tune before it is too late!
Trust me.

 

[jmdavis]

These number for the DAM are not happening on the E-Tune these numbers was happening on the Cobb Tune that’s what made me have the car re-tuned to get off the Cobb tunes

 

[vlad11591]

These number for the DAM are not happening on the E-Tune these numbers was happening on the Cobb Tune that’s what made me have the car re-tuned to get off the Cobb tunes

Dam dropping to .313 is a bit concerning. I would read this https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/PRS/pages/71991590/How+To+Datalog+Subaru+Vehicles Gives you a good idea on how to data log and what to look for. Are you getting knock at WOT? or Just cruising? Getting out of gears?

Bren tuning has a good reputation. I would trust that he is trying to give you a good tune based on your goals (conservative tune/aggressive) I've read that Phat botti tuning takes as much as 10+ revisions. They are fine tuning the tune, based on your driving habits, temp, etc.

OTS maps are a good starting point, but are generally limited to specific mods for most tunes. Those COBB OTS maps have to be run with the parts designated for the tune. So if you don't have a BigSF intake, don't run the tune. I would assume you do.

 

[jmdavis]

I do have th I take system from COBB the knock wouldn’t appear at wide open throttle the .313 was due to possibly water in the gas or the gas station not having the correct octane in the tank it’s not a normal gas station I would stop at but I was traveling that day. I called Cobb and he recommended on there Tune even though WV sells 93 octane to turn the tune to 91 which helped some but I also put octane booster and c foam in the tank to get rid of the water that could possibly be I. The gas it eventually corrected itself when I did that and when I went to sheets and put gas in it. However all themrought out having the time Cobb offers I would get feed back knock usually around 1.81 and my damn would drop down to .818 and then add timing back before I turned car off but never had feed back knock at any wot pulls only just driving around round which would cause the dam to
Drop. That’s what made me want to get off the tune just the constant dam change through driving up and down. Which I spoke to Cobb they told me that was normally to see those numbers. With the E-tune through Bren my dam has never came off of 1.00 since I started with them and if any feedback knock it around .70 but very rarely see it. I was just worried at the amount of rev I had considering a couple times I’ve waited three days for them to send me my tune which is stated that is possible in there emails a 48-72 hour turn around time. One thing worried me was the A1 number despite the guy in earlier post saying no way it could be 0.00 with the Cobb tune that A1 number was always 0.00/0.00 I never reviewed the data logs to confirm that didn’t change but as that showing on the gauge it always read that on the gauge when monitoring it. They are slowly getting that number back down now it’s 1.81 right now but what I was concerned is I know I’m getting close to my 30days with them. And that number wasn’t the same but normally I send them the logs the same day they send me
New ones usually that evening if not I’ll send them the next day. I sent logs to them Monday still waiting on rev6

 

[MainFrame]

how many revises does it normally take before the car is tuned correctly? This is my 5th revision and I’m still having to send logs because it’s not 100% yet idk to me I just feel that 6rev seems like an awful lot

The last tune I had done on my car had 44 revisions.. it just goes to show you how much more attention to detail you can get in person vs. an e-tune. Unless you live on the moon, I would always opt for a tune done in person, first on a dyno, then touch up on the street. With an e tune you're basically getting a one size fits all map that the tuner made long ago, with a couple small tweaks here and there to make sure it's running alright. There's no real focus on optimizing it for the vehicle and/or extracting power.

 

[jmdavis]

I knew I should have went with the protune however when I called in w.v. the closes place was Ohio and I had to leave my car for a few days hard for me to do this since it’s my daily driver.

 

[XJman]

If you call turn in concepts they will almost certainly work something out for you. They are in Cincinnati and I know I recommend them so much you would think I own the place but honestly I’ve never had better more honest service in my life. Their prices are fair and their work is top shelf.

If you wind up unhappy I highly suggest you give them a call. World class shop.

 

[jmdavis]

Thanks I’ll keep them in mind I don’t have anything all bad to say about Bren I guess my main concern was that many rev in and getting closer to the 30 day mark. I was worrried more less if everything wasn’t set like should be after 30 days what would happen if I have to pay again or if they would continue to dial it in till it’s where it should be I sent them log files I think Monday night I have still yet to hear back from them with the 6rev. Which I know they say can take up to 72hours but he bad thing is if I don’t get it today there closed Friday Saturday and Sunday so it will be Monday before I get my next one. Idk if those days there closed counts toward my 30 days or not and I seen a video online about a guy having 9 rev from them. I guess I’ll find out soon lol.

 

[MainFrame]

For what it's worth, Bren has a pretty good reputation.

 

[jmdavis]

View attachment 310434 This was the number hat I was concerned on the bottom AF Learning 1 A1

 

[Eric13el]

I had 8 revs on my e-tune from Eric Mienhart @ Torqued Performance and I would highly recomend him. Very fast turn around and he did an excellent job getting the car where it should be.
As for the AF reading, you are reading the AF Learning 1 which will typically be at 0. The one that you want to be monitoring is the AF Correction 1 and that should stay within + or - 5% though higher readings arent too big of a deal, the computer will compensate up to +-50%