Now those are the two ends of the spectrum, large OEMs vs small shops. What happens in the middle?
HKS, Alpina & Brabus make & help develop some OEM parts but also sell built engines. How would their longevity compare?
Now those are the two ends of the spectrum, large OEMs vs small shops. What happens in the middle?I think boutique builders have come a long way in the last 2 decades, particularly on Subaru flat 4s. There are three things here that I think people always confuse - Reliability, Longevity, and Power Handling. Built blocks tend to have equivalent reliability, superior power handling but at reduced longevity. Example: an F1 engine needs to be rebuilt every couple thousand KMs so it's longevity is quite poor compared to a street engine, but it MUST be reliable during operation to be competitive.
And this is almost always due to the fact that a modern automotive factory possesses superior tooling that is out of reach of boutique builders. There are exceptions, like when the aftermarket acquires an entire factory line from the manufacturer. A rebuilt SBC from 1969 might have lasted as long as the factory block from the same era because of the crude factory tooling, but also remember that 100k miles back then was considered very high mileage. You and I know this because we've both work(ed) in the automotive tooling business. Most people do not.
I also think there's an issue with people "oversizing" a built engine for their needs. They think "well if I'm replacing the engine I might as well go with the block that can handle 1000 hp" not recognizing material choices may impact longevity. You should always choose the right combination of parts for the application. Not having clear and concise goals is the main issue here.
AFAIK, Alpina and Brabus do not build the rotating assemblies in the cars that they modify and sell to the public.Now those are the two ends of the spectrum, large OEMs vs small shops. What happens in the middle?
HKS, Alpina & Brabus make & help develop some OEM parts but also sell built engines. How would their longevity compare?
I'm not crapping on the viper at all. It's a brilliant vehicle and it's humble origins as a garage built hodgepodge experiment on a budget to one of the most legendary sport cars to ever hit the streets is quite impressive.Hmm, interesting. A few million is pretty normal for most industrial machines. I guess you are right about the lack of a middle ground. Looked up the suppliers out of curiosity and HKS is 60+ mn$ revenue. I'd rather have better tolerances than blueprinting, the latter doesn't do you much good for longevity.
The viper is glorious, no need to shit on one of the best cars ever made. Would love to have one as a weekend car. Wouldn't drive it in the rain though, that was an experience I won't forget. On a more serious note, I'm more likely to trust rushed projects because managers have less time to fuck with the design. Every time I help friends fix VWs, the parts and design decisions remind me of projects lead by bean counters.
Over-engineering is a vague term and in most organizations it's a bad thing. It usually means that you have "technical directors" who are really penny pinchers with outdated technical experience questioning every design decision and cheapening every component. Worked on two projects simultaneously for the exact same type of machine. One was a 3 month project designed to be a stopgap and another was a 2 year project to make the long term product. The first one went fine and the stopgap is still in production with healthy profits and minimal quality issues.
The 2nd one started with a shocking number of brilliant ideas and great designs. After about 2-3 months of cost review meetings in which nearly every good idea was tossed because it cost 5-10% more, everyone had more or less checked out and was throwing in the cheapest and easiest designs they could think of just to avoid talking in those meetings. The end result was a nice looking machine that cost maybe 15% less than the stopgap but was scrapped because of quality problems that made some customers angry enough to try & sue us.
Yeah that was a joke comment, mimicking the response of Lancia fansI'm not crapping on the viper at all. It's a brilliant vehicle and it's humble origins as a garage built hodgepodge experiment on a budget to one of the most legendary sport cars to ever hit the streets is quite impressive.
That is a different problem. Better problem tbh, although I wish they would focus that overengineering on programming for a bit. Too many autos bog the engine at low revs until gas pedal is halfway down and then direcltly send it to redline.When I see over engineering is taking simple concepts then making them and complex as possible for no reason more than you can.
We have an entirely different problem in the transmission world. They spend absolutely absurd money when a simple solution would be easier to manufacture, more reliable, and cheaper.