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Discussion Starter #1
I've been thinking about the Cobb AP and have an idea. I understand that SOA as well as the dealer can tell when the ECU has been reflashed so.. What if you bought an extra ECU, installed it in your car to get it integrated, then used the Cobb AP on that new ECU? Then once you went to the dealership, you install your original ECU that came with the car and was never "tuned". Has anyone thought of this before?
 

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Lando Calrissian
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many have said the dealer can only tell by the number of key cycles recorded since flash. Basically, how many times you started the car since the last ECU update. If this is the case, your idea may work the first or second time you do it, but they will eventually realize that there have been only 40 cycles, and 40K miles on the car, you only 3 cycles since your last service.... so no dice
 

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Discussion Starter #3
many have said the dealer can only tell by the number of key cycles recorded since flash. Basically, how many times you started the car since the last ECU update. If this is the case, your idea may work the first or second time you do it, but they will eventually realize that there have been only 40 cycles, and 40K miles on the car, you only 3 cycles since your last service.... so no dice
So basically, we need a computer program that can link up with the ECU and randomly apply these start codes in an order that would closely represent the start sequence of a car with ~your cars mileage. Come on, this is 2011, we have people that could easily write the code for that, design a harness ---> USB that would plug into your computer and apply that to the ECU.
 

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A simple stage 1 flash shouldn't be something to worry about in regards to risking no warranty coverage. You can safely and reliably run a conservative stage 1 tune way beyond the warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
A simple stage 1 flash shouldn't be something to worry about in regards to risking no warranty coverage. You can safely and reliably run a conservative stage 1 tune way beyond the warranty.
Why would this be the case? In terms of your car running "safely" on a stage 1 versus the stock tune, the consensus seems to agree. In terms of SOA and your dealer, however, stage 1 might as well be stage 9999 since an ECU reflash is an ECU reflash is an...
 

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As long as the reflash does not cause the problem, your warranty covers it. That's why I said it shouldn't be something to worry about, again, as long as your stage 1 tune is conservative (i.e. Cobb/Perrin OTS).
 

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Lando Calrissian
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the issue is not 'an ECU reflash is an ECU reflash is an... ' but that they will use anything they can to void the warranty to avoid having to PAY MONEY for something. a reflash is an excuse they use to save them money. that is all.

Did running stage 2 directly cause the LSD to fail, no... it was the driver doing donuts on tarmac that broke the LSD, but they can use the excuse of the stage 2 flash to void the warranty and not cover the LSD
 

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Discussion Starter #9
the issue is not 'an ECU reflash is an ECU reflash is an... ' but that they will use anything they can to void the warranty to avoid having to PAY MONEY for something. a reflash is an excuse they use to save them money. that is all.

Did running stage 2 directly cause the LSD to fail, no... it was the driver doing donuts on tarmac that broke the LSD, but they can use the excuse of the stage 2 flash to void the warranty and not cover the LSD

That is exactly what I meant. Lokey was saying a stage 1 is safe, and I understand that it is inherently less dangerous than further stages, but if your car goes and the ECU was reflashed, it doesn't matter that you only reflashed it for stage 1, you still reflashed it and that's that. I don't know, with a brand new 11 with 1100 miles on it, I want to mod yet I don't lol. Ah the days of buying used cars with 60k sure had its advantages.
 

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Can we all agree to stop saying "void the warranty" please? It's simply a false statement. A warranty does not become void. It is agreement between SOA and the consumer on what will be covered, what will not ("exceptions"), and the duration, usually by category (i.e. bumper-to-bumper, drivetrain). If you do donuts on a tarmac and break your LSD with a stock car, SOA would call that abuse (if the shop can prove it), and therefore not cover you. So, your point is pointless. All I'm saying is that a stage 1 tune by itself does not put the car at risk. hell, you can even have a car tuned to be more reliable than stock.
 

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Did running stage 2 directly cause the LSD to fail, no... it was the driver doing donuts on tarmac that broke the LSD, but they can use the excuse of the stage 2 flash to void the warranty and not cover the LSD

no they can't. But they can use "Abuse" to deny it.

Here's the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. It's good reading. Read up!

Magnuson

In a nut shell it's basically an act that governs warranties on consumer products. When you get down to the nitty-gritty... The part, or modification that you have done, has to have DIRECTLY caused the part to fail on the vehicle. So if you installed a cold air intake, and didn't get a tune for it, and your engine blew, and it was determined that it was due to a lean air/fuel mixture... then they can deny your warranty claim. But if you have coilovers and your engine blew... they cannot deny your warranty claim.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Can we all agree to stop saying "void the warranty" please? It's simply a false statement. A warranty does not become void. It is agreement between SOA and the consumer on what will be covered, what will not ("exceptions"), and the duration, usually by category (i.e. bumper-to-bumper, drivetrain). If you do donuts on a tarmac and break your LSD with a stock car, SOA would call that abuse (if the shop can prove it), and therefore not cover you. So, your point is pointless. All I'm saying is that a stage 1 tune by itself does not put the car at risk. hell, you can even have a car tuned to be more reliable than stock.
Ok I will start calling it "warranty work being denied on my WRX due to possible modifications to the engines electronical control unit" if that makes you happy, but in any sense you are inevitably voiding your warranty in the long run.

The point I was trying to decide on was, is it possible to develop a method to ghost a secondary ECU to match that of a normally driven stock WRX. If this is at all possible from a computer engineering stand point, it would be bodacious.
 

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it'd be a waste of time and money. Especially since there are several stage 1 09 WRXs that spun bearings, and subaru didn't deny their claims.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
no they can't. But they can use "Abuse" to deny it.

Here's the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. It's good reading. Read up!

Magnuson

In a nut shell it's basically an act that governs warranties on consumer products. When you get down to the nitty-gritty... The part, or modification that you have done, has to have DIRECTLY caused the part to fail on the vehicle. So if you installed a cold air intake, and didn't get a tune for it, and your engine blew, and it was determined that it was due to a lean air/fuel mixture... then they can deny your warranty claim. But if you have coilovers and your engine blew... they cannot deny your warranty claim.
This I 110% understand, and the point of my thread was no to litagate current policy on car manufactures warranties, yet rather to try to defeat them using a simple idea and a computer.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
it'd be a waste of time and money. Especially since there are several stage 1 09 WRXs that spun bearings, and subaru didn't deny their claims.
Fair enough, that is the type of data I was looking for. I wish we had a thread of warranty claims denied or accepted versus the type of tune that was performed. Some raw data would be quite nice, then I could derive some statistics on the matter.
 

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nopistons93 said:
I've been thinking about the Cobb AP and have an idea. I understand that SOA as well as the dealer can tell when the ECU has been reflashed so.. What if you bought an extra ECU, installed it in your car to get it integrated, then used the Cobb AP on that new ECU? Then once you went to the dealership, you install your original ECU that came with the car and was never "tuned". Has anyone thought of this before?
How about you not try to defraud Subaru?

Seriously, if you want to have the peace of mind of a warranty, be happy with the way it came from the factory (and what Subaru is guaranteeing with that warranty) and don't modify it. If you choose to modify your vehicle, don't lie about it. Some dealerships are more mod-friendly than others; find this information out before you modify, and make an educated decision, but accept the consequences for your actions if it comes back to bite you.
 

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I've been thinking about the Cobb AP and have an idea. I understand that SOA as well as the dealer can tell when the ECU has been reflashed so.. What if you bought an extra ECU, installed it in your car to get it integrated, then used the Cobb AP on that new ECU? Then once you went to the dealership, you install your original ECU that came with the car and was never "tuned". Has anyone thought of this before?
No they can't (the dealership) anyways, if you unmarry the AP all they can se is that the battry was disconnected, and the ECU started learning over again...
 

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As far as I understand it.. It takes a subaru engineer from SOA looking at the "Checksum" value to see the number of flashes. And if the car has been flashed more than the number of flashes on record from subaru... then they know there has been some tampering.
 

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Listen to Sinister and EJ257. Read your warranty and know your dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
How about you not try to defraud Subaru?

Seriously, if you want to have the peace of mind of a warranty, be happy with the way it came from the factory (and what Subaru is guaranteeing with that warranty) and don't modify it. If you choose to modify your vehicle, don't lie about it. Some dealerships are more mod-friendly than others; find this information out before you modify, and make an educated decision, but accept the consequences for your actions if it comes back to bite you.
If I really cared about your thoughts on the morality of the issue, I would of PM'ed you. All I want is technical information concerning the information in the title of my thread. Thanks anyway for your input.

BTW, didn't mean to sound like an ass, don't want to make enemies on a board I've just recently joined. Especially since I joined clubwrx to avoid the whole mainstream NOASIC or whatever.
 
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