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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When questioning longevity and durability, wouldn't a proper mod be to simply get a high-performance radiator?? I know PWR, MRT, and ZEROSPORTS all make good aluminum radiators. Since the entire engine will be running slightly cooler, wont this also affect the turbo and/or charged air? If I did get a new radiator would I have to have the Unichip remapped? Or will it not be that drastic of a change? Im just thinking, cooler operating temps, cooler charge air, cooler everything! What are everyones thoughts on this, and why havent more people done this to protect their depreciating investments?? Has anyone actually installed an MRT or PWR radiator with good success?

-jm
 

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I think the main reason nobody has done this (at least none that I recall), is that the stock radiator is aluminum (obviously the ends are not - ask Platinum:p ). Upgrading to a higher performance radiator wouldn't necessarily net you a lot of gain (at least for the money). That's my $0.02...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If I had some bling bling I would do a temperature test on the two of them! Take a stock radiator, and pare it up against an aftermarket one. I belive all the aftermarket radiators have slightly larger cores and more passageways per square inch. They also hold more liquid!
 

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They do increase cooling capacity quite a bit which is good but I'm waiting for Koyo to release their kits for the GDA. I've seen all the aftermarket ones and Koyo had the nicest welds by far. The PWR's are cheap though and decent. The Zero Sports one is beautiful but pricey.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
But again, God, do you think a performance radiator will have nothing but positive results for long term use and abuse on the wrx? What do you think the added cooling results will have on the charge air temps, if any? And what effects will it have on other internal engine components over the long haul? Your insight is very helpful! Yea the Zerosports one looks aweasome, the PWR and MRT ones kinda look junky, but they are only $500. I wish that Fluidyne made radiators for the Dub! I have one on my Eclipse and the welds are exceptional, and it was only $400!
 

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Fluidyne does make one for the WRX, so does C&R. I'm in the process of making myself a WRX radiator here at Griffin. It should dominate any other WRX rad. out there but it will be to pricey to market(so will my new intercooler;) ). I would suggest the C&R just because they use Visteon cores.
just my $.02

one place I found C&R
http://home.att.net/~teaguesauto/motorwrx.htm
 

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boostedgst said:
But again, God, do you think a performance radiator will have nothing but positive results for long term use and abuse on the wrx? What do you think the added cooling results will have on the charge air temps, if any? And what effects will it have on other internal engine components over the long haul? Your insight is very helpful! Yea the Zerosports one looks aweasome, the PWR and MRT ones kinda look junky, but they are only $500. I wish that Fluidyne made radiators for the Dub! I have one on my Eclipse and the welds are exceptional, and it was only $400!
Well it can never hurt to have more cooling that's for sure. So there is no drawback unless you count the cost. Now as far as results on the track they are recommended but do an oil cooler first. As far as performance I have seen some really incredible dyno sheets with pretty much off the shelf parts where the only difference is the upgraded radiator. Perhaps the extra cooling of the block helped quite a bit on power. Without doing some more research I can't say for sure but it looks like it's worth some power as well as reliability. Lastly, the welds on the Fluidyne are okay as well as C&R but compared to the Koyo, they both were clearly not as nice.
 

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Most of the ones out there right now, save for ZeroSports, are for looks only...they use small cores, and provide no gains whatsoever on even a modded WRX.

The ZeroSports, as well as the forthcoming Fluidyne units, are completely upgraded cores...the Fluidyne one for example is the same core they use on their Supra kits - vastly improved cooling, but again, more appropriate for those intending on running a BIG front mount.

Adam
www.z1auto.com
 

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and now for the rest of the story.....
ok start throwing the tomatos, i am going to ruffle some feathers.
I was one of the first dealers in the country to get the MRT radiator. Their are only 17 of us agents in the US. So one thing to consider is that some people HAVE to talk down MRT parts if they are retailers because if they are not one of the 17, even if they could get the parts, they will make very little on them. Just bidness my friend, just bidness. If you compare the MRT radiator to the stock one, you will be impressed. We have it hanging on the wall, and we get no comments of "cheesy", we get "hey that that looks awesome". it is under $500 and it comes from a company thet is definitely not known to focus on flash. Most of their products are considered to be the best in their class.
Think about the attention to detail in their exhausts, the stigma behind there dogboxes, and so on. They would not build a radiator for looks. when Brett was considering making radiators, he called me. He said "would these sell"? I said with his quality would the thing be $700? He said he had a new fabricator looking to get in with him and could offer him some aggressive pricing to get going.

please do not use the real rotten tomatos, they smell and stain....
 

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Mark - well put, and I am certainly not putting down MRT's products at all. In fact, I have been dealing with Brett on a personal level (when I was just an investor in Z-1 and not here full time) for ages now...long before there were any official "dealers" in this country at least. In fact, Brett built the motor (EJ20 Sti V4 RA) that was in my 2.5 RS. No we are not one of their dealers, but we have dealt with them many times before.

I too have seen the radiator...very nice piece indeed, and quality cosntruction...but it is in a different league altogether than ZeroSports and Fluidyne in terms of the technology behind it. Mind you, at sub $500, it is alos in a vastly different price category from the other 2 mentioned...

Adam
www.z1auto.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Is the Fluidyne one out yet? If so who sells?
 

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Z1 Performance said:
Mark - well put, and I am certainly not putting down MRT's products at all. In fact, I have been dealing with Brett on a personal level (when I was just an investor in Z-1 and not here full time) for ages now...long before there were any official "dealers" in this country at least. In fact, Brett built the motor (EJ20 Sti V4 RA) that was in my 2.5 RS. No we are not one of their dealers, but we have dealt with them many times before.

I too have seen the radiator...very nice piece indeed, and quality cosntruction...but it is in a different league altogether than ZeroSports and Fluidyne in terms of the technology behind it. Mind you, at sub $500, it is alos in a vastly different price category from the other 2 mentioned...

Adam
www.z1auto.com
Adam,
Brett told me he knew you from the Rallispec days.
good comments on the post,
thanks,
Mark
 

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guys, an upgraded radiator isnt going to reduce water temps or cool to a lower temp than stock radiator. Temperature is controlled by the thermostat. As a simple analogy, if you upgrade your ac system in your house to one twice the size and capacity buy still leave your thermostat on the same setting your not going to be one degree cooler.

What an upgraded radiator buys you is keeping the temp at a more constant rate ( again, controlled by the t-stat ) because it is more efficient at cooling the water, your thermostat will cycle less often because the ungraded radiator cools more efficiently and your chances of overheating are much reduced.

If you want lower water temps/better performance that can be had by cooler water temps you have to upgrade your thermostat. If your not running road races, your much better off spending 1/5th the money and simply putting a colder t-stat on your stock cooling system..if that doesnt keep temps in an ideal range then consider an upgraded radiator in conjuction with colder t-stat.
 

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Twinz
this is a good point. the only variable here is when you have gone past the stock radiators cooling capacity. That happened on my Chevelle years ago as I went from a 350 with around 300hp to a 406 with over 500hp. I needed to upgrade the radiator because of the demands i had now placed on it. On hot summer days, the car ran 220 degrees even with a 160 degree thermostat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Good info Twinz.. i was reading up on the thermostats on motormatrix's website. And I was thinking the same thing...if the stock thermostat doesnt open until 185f or whatever, a better radiator is only going to keep the coolant/water a little cooler so when the thermostat opens to let it in, its a tad cooler. The Zerosports thermostat opens at like 160f, so in other words more often! That might be a better upgrade in itself costwise. Ultimately a performance radiator with thermostat would be ideal, but a thermostat alone should hinder cooler engine temps.
 

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boostedgst said:
Good info Twinz.. i was reading up on the thermostats on motormatrix's website. And I was thinking the same thing...if the stock thermostat doesnt open until 185f or whatever, a better radiator is only going to keep the coolant/water a little cooler so when the thermostat opens to let it in, its a tad cooler. The Zerosports thermostat opens at like 160f, so in other words more often! That might be a better upgrade in itself costwise. Ultimately a performance radiator with thermostat would be ideal, but a thermostat alone should hinder cooler engine temps.
I think you mean should "help" not hinder cooler engine temps...and it certainly will help! When my TTZ was running 470hp at the wheels all I had to do was upgrade to a Nismo colder T-stat with evey other cooling system component stock. Even when dynoing the car or sitting in 95 degree florida traffic or flat out at 160+ the temp never went over 175 degrees with that simple modification.
 

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in the summit racing magazine one of their products i found was an electronic thermostat that can be adjusted by some display that you wire into the cabin. that could be a good idea, if you dont wanna upgrade to a new radiator, but also don't want the thing to cycle all the time (ie just for track days)
thoughts?


-Robert
 

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The problem is on modern cars, going to a colder t stat reveals nothing by way of power increases. The motor was designed around providing "x" level f HP at "y" temperature...believe it or not, the motor is actually intended to run at 185C all day long.

In the early days of FI, you could go to a colder t stat which fooled the ecu into providing longer injector pulsewidth, thus yielding slightly more fuel....such is not eh case anymore as the ecu, especially the Subaru units tka ea variety of inputs to determine injector pulsewidth (most import it uses is the EGT sensor)

Adam
www.z1auto.com
 

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Z1 Performance said:
The problem is on modern cars, going to a colder t stat reveals nothing by way of power increases. The motor was designed around providing "x" level f HP at "y" temperature...believe it or not, the motor is actually intended to run at 185C all day long.

In the early days of FI, you could go to a colder t stat which fooled the ecu into providing longer injector pulsewidth, thus yielding slightly more fuel....such is not eh case anymore as the ecu, especially the Subaru units tka ea variety of inputs to determine injector pulsewidth (most import it uses is the EGT sensor)

Adam
www.z1auto.com
I *think* where the colder t-stat is an advantage and can indeed provide more power even on modern FI cars is when using aftermarket engine management systems that many wrx owners here are utilizing ..as will I myself once I scrape up enough cash for the UTEC.:) I agree that on a stock engine mgmt system that performance gains will be either minimal or no-existant, but once the serious modding starts and aftermarket engine mgmt system come into play they are one of the steps to take towards increased performance as well as reliability factor of keeping the engine running in its optimum temp range.

On my old TT, we did see a HP increase on the dyno by going to the colder t-stat and it was approx 10hp ( dont have the dyno sheets any more to compare ). That car was using a JWT ecu that was custom modified for my setup.
 

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what about a differnt cap? different cover caps are rated at various bar /pressure, so maybe a stronger one would allow the water to get hotter w/o boiling?
 
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