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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
OK, I've had a nice couple of days, and got to be in some cars other than my own!


2001 RS2.5 with DMS coilovers, rear sway bar, Folken Azenis tires, and a little engine work:
The car as I understand is running 15.2 in the 1/4. It's not a super fast car for speed, but the handling is totally insane! While I only rode in it, I felt the difference from the passenger seat (STi version 6 seats). The DMS suspension was setup to stiffer than you want on your mom's daily driver! The ride was much more harsh than a WRX, and could easily slap a WRX around on the twisties. Overall, the price of the car, with the suspension makes for a less than WRX price with awesome handling! THIS CAR ROCKED!

2002 WRX with UTEC, 17" OZ Leggeras and Avon ZZ1 tires:
My fathers WRX. Obviously faster than the WRX above, but lacks the handling. Power upgrade from the UTEC is just barely noticeable from stock, but it's there. It's obviously a fantastic car, and has been on Car and Driver Top 10 two years in a row, was Automobile Magazine Car of The Year in 2002, etc. The suspension is pretty good stock, but could be improved on. Seats are supportive, but nothing like the Version 6 seats in the RS. The WRX could certain use some work, but it's easy to work with! Recently rode in a WRX which just had a uppipe installed. Also had prodrive axleback, eibach springs, whiteline strut bar, and sway bars. The car pulled a lot harder than my fathers WRX, and felt like from the back seat it handled even better. Ride feel wasn't much stiffer in feel, but you could sense it handled better for sure!

STi:
Less than 45 minutes later I was riding in an STi. Wasn't broken in, but the guy brought it up to 5500rpm. It felt very quick, and had a ride feel that was somewhere between a stock WRX and the modded RS2.5 with the DMS coilovers set to stiff. A rather bumpy ride. Not something everyone would be willing to tolerate though, but not so bad it will drive you insane. Overall I was pleased with the feel, but I don't think I would run out and buy one. As recently shown in Sport Compact Car, a Vishnu Stage 2 car can smack an STi around and still have something left to give out! So, while it's got more power, a better suspension, the 6-speed and DCCD... I don't think it's superior to a WRX. If I was looking for these power levels, I would get a WRX and tune it up. Also note, there has been a problem with detonation going around. The cheapness of the scoop and the wing are a bother though. Both tend to flap and heavily vibrate while driving. :eek: On positive note though, the STi does have a rather nice interior!

Evolution VIII:
Then last, but not least... Yesterday I got to ride in an EVO VIII. The car ride was nothing like I expected! Infact it felt about as soft if not softer than even a stock WRX?!?!? I had a hard time with that! Yet it's been shown to handle much better than the WRX, and can still eat an STi in handling. Feeling it move at high speed was crisp and reacted with eagerness to eat anything even thinking of trying to compete. Power? TOTALLY AMAZING! The power felt completely insane compared to any of the other cars! Infact, the car was soo awesome I understand why all the magazine reviews pick the EVO over the STi. The interior as always mentioned does seem to have a feel of cheapness to it though. The seats are pretty stiff, but not as stiff as the STi seats in the RS. This leaves room and reason to upgrade! Always a good thing!


While I only drove one of the cars mentioned, I did get a very good feel for all of them just being a passenger. I believe the STi when broken in would feel rather awesome in quickness, but I don't think it will feel quite as awesome as the EVO for some reason. While I drive a WRX and love it, and have been very pro WRX for almost a year... I hate to say the EVO has gone back to where it was originally! The king of the road, and the ultimate car of cars.

The WRX and RS2.5 do have a great advantages though! The RS2.5 serves much better as a cheaper car which you can buy and use the saved money to work on the suspension. This would allow to build an awesome track car if money can be an issue. Saved up, you could always do an engine swap and pop in say... An imported 22B!
If you have the money though, I would go with a tuned up WRX. They start at a good price, and already a turbo charged engine with a decent suspension, it makes for a fast, fun car for anyone (Anyone who isn't going to think they're superman and get themselves killed that is!). An awesome project car IMO.

If you're looking to go with stock only though, and no upgrades... The Evolution is the one and best way to go.


~ Dan (Zapix)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I really wish I could take a drive of an STi or EVO. Somebody I know up in Mass might let me take his car for a drive with all the Vishnu upgrades already done, etc. So, if I get to do that, I'll have a ton to say about the EVO! :D Plus had the STi been broken in, I could get a cleaner view of what it's like when you abuse the gas pedal! :p Still, 5500rpm is right under full power.

Still, just as a passenger, you can get an idea from the ride feel, and the car movement how it handles, and watch the gauges and speedo for the power.

Still not thrilled about the EVO VIII front end, but I'm not thrilled about the scoop and wing heavily vibrating when you drive it either!

Oh well!

If one thing is true about all these cars though... They're all great!
 

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My friend has an EVO, and I must say... that car is truly, fully, in-all-honesty a very well-built car! The speed is there, the handling is (man, i can't even describe it...), and it's pretty stiff and stead at freeway speeds.

If I were to choose between an EVO and STi, i'd WANT the EVO, but would end up with the STi. There has been issues with Mitsubishi engines that are turbocharged in the past... so reliability on the EVO is still an unknown. However, the EVO in all aspects except for speed and maybe the interior is better than tha STi (looks, handling, ride comfort, body, etc...).

But overall... i'd go with a bone stock rex and spend that extra 10 grand on mods... Vishnu Stage 2 rex beats the STi in speed w/ a lil something extra left over... :D
 

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Great review!!

Yeah, I got to ride an STi, and although the car was faster than mine, I wasn't THAT much more impressed. The one thing that got me for the STi was the interior. The gauges, the seats, the DCCD, etc...i was in love.

Ah well, I'm very happy with my rex, and I'm soon to be as fast as an STi as soon as I get my UTEC :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
RLsChMiDt said:
Great review!!

The one thing that got me for the STi was the interior. The gauges, the seats, the DCCD, etc...i was in love.
Thank you! :)


Yeah, the interior of the STi is pretty impressive compared to a standard WRX. The blue carpet was a 'WOW!' to me.
The lack of a stereo being standard in the price is rediculous though, then as I understand to try and charge $1700 to $2000 for it?!? That's just absurd!

Both of these are brand new cars here in the country, and while I'd love to get my hands on an EVO as a second car... I will hold off until these cars have been around, beaten, and slaughtered on the roads to show how reliable they are!

Also remember, next year the EVO will have the options of AYC and ACD... WOOT!

Bring that, the EVO IV look back, and I will be all over the EVO.

I might end up if I'm lucky getting to drive an EVO this weekend! If I do, I'll have a review of just the EVO vs WRX.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
OhForRex said:
But overall... i'd go with a bone stock rex and spend that extra 10 grand on mods... Vishnu Stage 2 rex beats the STi in speed w/ a lil something extra left over... :D
This is why the WRX still stands to me as the ultimate choice! It's a AWD turbocharged car at a great price! There is a huge market for parts already, huge amounts of tuning and test has already been invested in it, and so on. With the MSRP at $23,995 and added you get that reduced... You walk away with an awesome car! Spend like you said... $10k into upgrades and you have a totally customized car, to your look, style, performance, handling, etc! And it can outclass an STi or EVO. The bad part is you lose the warrenty. If it's not important though, then it's the best deal. If the warrenty is, the EVO or STi are both great choices. Although I would wait till next year to get one once the hype is a down a little, and the cars have been around for some breaking in and testing.

As for the SCC review of the Vishnu car kicking the crap out of the STi... THAT WAS JUST AWESOME! Still, DCCD and 6 speed tranny... That's pretty sweet! Heh, all I say to that is... Wait till some kid has a dispute with a tree! If you can salvage it, pull the DCCD system off it, or the 6 speed tranny! While you're at it, anything else intact is always profit on ebay! :rolleyes:
 

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Im sorry but how did you come to the conclusion that a stage 2 wrx is faster then a sti with some speed to spare? The vishnu wrx tested in the compro in scc was a $33k wrx with r-compund road racing tires. It beat the sti in acceration by 3tenths of a second and that is mostly contributed to and extra shift for the sti. And around a road course the r compounds are easily worth the 3 seconds that the wrx won by.

Dont forget that the other 2-3 wrxs got slaughterd in the compro with the worst one having a total cost of $50k.

I agree if you are going to build up a track car start with a wrx.... actually no start with a 2.5rs since all you need is the chassy everything else will be replaced anyway. But for a street car it is hard to build up a wrx to match every aspect of an sti, not to mention no warranty, you have to have the car tuned properly, and have the suspension set up professionally.

As for the evo it is a great car but it appears to "feel" faster then it really is. The turbo lag makes the turbo kick seem to pull harder then the sti, and the driver communication makes it feel much faster around turns. It is a better handler but not by as much as it feels like, its a great drivers car though. Around the autox course from what I have seen the evo seems to have a advantage due to slightly better handiling and the steering ratio makes it easier to drive but so far the sti has beat the 3 evos (in one case the sti was 1sec faster then the fastest evo on a 40sec course) at each autox I have seen them at, but driver skill has a big input on that, I believe the evo is slightly faster on small tight courses but the bigger it gets the more the sti has the advantage.

Im not flaming your review or anything I just dont know where you got that stage 2 wrx was a hell of alot faster especially when it cost the same as a sti. It was a good review and I added my little review;)

EDIT: Hell the sti tranny is worth the 10k to me by itself, not for its extra gear but for its strenth. The wrx 5spd will not hold a v stage 2 power forever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
If you consider a stock WRX price... $23,995... Knock off the real sale cost... Say... Saving $1500! Easy to do. I've heard of lots of people saving around that amount, if not even more. $2000 off MSRP I've heard isn't very rare!

So, you're talking $21,995 now... Pop $10,000 into upgrades... Not even Vishnu for sure! I was shocked to see TurboXS didn't take part in it since it's exaust and UTEC are supposed to be so special! So, a Stage 4 TMI from TXS is like what... $5000 at most? Throw in uppipe, hoses. Go to a garage day for the install! Wanna play hardcore? Get some DMS coilovers, rear sway bar... About $3300 or so? Upgrade the clutch/flywheel... Another $1000? Again, install it at a garage day.
So, we're at about $10,000 now.
Sell the OE parts! You make some $$$ back! Stock turbo and intercooler somebody would probably by for $1000 easily. Not sure about the exaust parts, but sell it for $100 just to get rid of it. Stock clutch/flywheel. Sell those for $200 just to get rid of em.
So, we'll just we've spent about $8500 after the rest of the OE parts.
Sell the stock wheels! That's $300 to $400 easy. Now, spend the short of $2000 on light $17 rims, some good tires.
$10,000 spent...

You now have a tuned up WRX, no warrenty, but you paid about the same price, your ins. costs won't be quite as high (saving money now!), and you adjust the car suspension for what you need. Where as the STi will always be a ride your wife or mother hates!

Now, you're saving money on insurance costs! Save that, go buy a stronger gear set for the WRX. $3700 is a price I found for one, plus you'll need that installed (expensive I would assume!). Now you'll have a WRX that you've invested lots of money into!

yes, the SCC review pointed out the Toyo Proxes R compound tires helped the Vishnu car do it... BUT IT BEAT THE STi!


As for the $50,000 WRX... That was a joke and a waste of money to even think the car could beat the STi! It goes to prove a FMIC and a greddy turbo provide nothing to get you off the line (nothing except enough lag to let a stock Civic get bus lengths ahead of you as you wait for the turbo to spool!), and give you big time lag! The dyno numbers are huge though! So, you'll feel it. Reading it, I decided to stay away from an FMIC and huge turbo!

The EVO and STi are great cars if you wanna leave them stock. The RS2.5 is a great car for custom tuning for sure as I mentioned. Yet a WRX for it's price is also great! Depends on what kind of $$$ you have to spend, and if warrenty is an issue.

While this setup might not slaughter an STi like a stock Kia vs a WRX, even a 10th of a second can mean everything on a track day. For a daily driver... It's just stupid!

Like I said though... All are great cars
 

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I didnt say modding a wrx was worthless I was just saying the vishnu wrx did not clearly win, I believe that with equall tires the sti would have won at the track.

Also you DRASTICALLY overestimate the worth of stock wrx parts. exhaust go for $40 the turbo 100-150 intercooler 200 wheels 200-250 I got a set im trying to unload for 150.

And you forget that once a computer comes out a sti will be putting out around 315whp and most importantly 320ft lbs of tourque (which few wrx's with 300whp can match) with only a computer, intake, downpipe, and raise the boost a bit. Which will put it well into the 12s and actually have less turbo lag then stock (stage 4 wrx at autox are not as fun as you might think) all for under $2k. And you will have a stronger engine block/tranny/dccd.

Once again Im not telling anyone which car they should pick, I just think you are downplaying the sti a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
afpdl said:
Also you DRASTICALLY overestimate the worth of stock wrx parts. exhaust go for $40 the turbo 100-150 intercooler 200 wheels 200-250 I got a set im trying to unload for 150.
Haven't really looked on what the people sell them for on the boards and locally... But I sold my wheels over ebay, where I saw them going for $400 average, and as high as $700! I had less than 500 miles on them when I sold the rims and tires together. Would have had less than 50 miles had I gotten my rims and tires from the dealer on time, instead of an WE-OWE-YOU piece of paper. Haven't looked recently, but I know stock headlights easily went for $400 to $500 about 6 months ago, stock hood scoop going for $100, etc. A candy lane of $$$! If they still go that high, WRC headlights and a STi hoodscoop are not that far out of my future then! :D

Oh, sorry if I seemed like you were saying the Vishnu was worthless. Didn't mean to come across that way if you interpreted it as such.
I understand why you questioned what I had said, and I didn't take it was flaming, or whatever. Just when it comes to 1/4 seconds, on the track that can be all the difference!
Plus the STi with its detonation, lack of stereo, 2.5 engine setup being new and unknown for how reliable it will be... I find the STi rather questionable. Great performing car, but leaves a lot of things questionable! :(

I also have noted here and on other people... People who have a WRX and rode in an STi recently are not completely impressed and have no interest in rushing out to get one! Course, I don't see people rushing out to buy the EVO either! :p

Anyway!

With a little luck, maybe I'll get to drive an EVO this weekend!
 

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I understand what you were saying about track times what I was saying is it was not a fair compro as the sti had street tires.

Also if you want to get into track times at any track event or autox there is this thing called classes where you are classed with cars of equal speed. While the sti will be in a class with cars such as evos, c4 vettes etc... the vishnu sti would be in a heavy mod class and have to compete with cars that are way beyond a stage 2 wrx for example cobbs project conebasher would run against vishnus stage 2 car as well as more heavily modded cars. So even if the vishnu won in any kind of competitive event (besides some open track day) the sti would be rated higher due to its class.

Im not going to get into the engine disscusion since none here ping anymore then they should (even in the 100 degree plus weather we have been having) but you are right it is an unproven engine, it could prove to be great or it could crap out at 60k miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
So you're saying the Vishnu car cheated it's way to a win with the Toyo tires? LOL! Even SCC brought up the tires had ton to do with that! :p
"As recently shown in Sport Compact Car, a Vishnu Stage 2 car can smack an STi around and still have something left to give out!"
And that particular car did, but in all reality for a street car... In daily driver car terms (and I'm sure you'll agree), R compound tires are stupid to have. True, I didn't point out SCC's testing info, etc.. I expect most people here know about that review though. However, I was merely pointing out they did testing in which a WRX did out do the STi. Who knows the results if the STi had R compound tires as well. it's more about different cars vs other different cars though.
Beyond what is quoted there, is my own experience.
When I rode in the STi I honestly didn't feel the STi was very special. I knew it was more powerful, but did I feel it? Nope. Not really. Did it handle better? Seemed to from a passenger view. The ride was certainly more bumpy though!

Heh! True enough, I forgot about the class ranking.
Recently found out a single piece seat sticks you in a higher competition level, where as a 2 piece seat doesn't! I would get single piece Recaro or Sparco seats if I hadn't find that out! Also found out the SCCA doesn't like the Tein EDFC system! :eek:
I have plans for my rex... So I either hold off, and do nothing and annoy myself... Or I do it, and place it in a area where I can't compete since I don't have the driver skill to do it! Which I'm already considering a second car down the line now... Either an AE86 or an RS once the WRX isn't an issue. As we both agree on the RS, you can totally customize it with time and $$$.

one last note...
While the STi engine is new... It's a Subaru, and I tend to believe Subaru knows what it's doing. With that in mind, I think the STi is a trustworthy car, but you never know. Anything beyond that I wouldn't be able to get into! I simply don't know enough about engines! I am looking forward to seeing the results from Vishnu since they are starting to work with an STi, and hopefully other tuners. Maybe they can find a way to fix that detonation, and feed more power to the driver!

Glad you thought it was a good review though :)
Anyone who reads all this now, will at least have a clearer idea of the line about the Vishnu car if they didn't read the article.

and anyone who doesn't have any of these cars, and is thinking of buying one! WOW, DO THEY SUCK ON A HOT, HUMID DAY! :D
Hope it's a cool day if I get to drive the EVO!
 

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I know what you mean about not feeling faster but feel is subjective. Ive ridden in stage 4 wrxs(equivallent to stage 2 vishnu) and they didnt feel much faster on the highway (even though it was) then my wagon with a catless exhaust and a mbc. It does feel alot faster when your waiting for the boost to kick and and when it does the kick is way harder then stock. The stis lack of lag actually makes it feel slower because you never get that kick from 130hp to 300 that you would get in a vishnu stage 2 car.

But while riding in one in at an autox the tourque comming out of corners will put the wrx to shame, the road holding was way way better then my wrx (which is stock now) and the power wasnt even comparable, he downshifted to second comming out of a corner and broke all 4 loose easily.

Just adding my impressions that I have experianced. I think I had more of an opportunity to experiance the differences they you have since it is hard to drive any car as close to the limits as you can in a autox on the street. Well its not any harder but for people who have a value for life its hard to do.
 

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Not to flame or anything, but I do not understand why you are considering engine reliability as an issue in these reviews. Yes, the STi engine is, indeed, new. So is the EVO's. However, it is not as if Vishnu and TurboXS have had decades of their WRXs being driven. So, therefore, their adverse effects on engine life are also an unknown. It would seem to me, then, that engine life and reliablity is as of yet a nonissue.
 

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The evo engine is only new to the us market. The engine itself has been around for many years around the world though.
 

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Thanks for the correction. I was under the impression that different markets engines were slightly different and/or merely running different boost levels.
 

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The US evo does run lower boost levels and less hp then other markets but that will not make the car more unreliable if anything it would be more reliable.
 

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Oh man.. When I read this thread title, I though "RS2!? Those are my effin dream cars!" And then I realized that you meant Impreza 2.5 RS.

What a letdown.

;)
 
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