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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I had the catless uppipe installed yesterday and they also put an aftermarket BOV on for free. They said if I dont like the BOV that they would put the stock one back on, idk if I can really tell the difference.

I also got my AP installed with a stage 1 map, definitely improved some things. I was watching the different monitors on my way to work and I have a concern. First of all the P0171 is still coming on, they tested the volts of the O2 and they said it was good. The A/F Correction is what my concern is. On a normal flat driving it's running around +14 to +15, letting off gas while going down hill I'm reading 0, starting out from a stop or accelerating up a hill (even a small incline) it's jumping up to +20 to +25, at a stand still idle I'm fluctuating between -1.76 to +2.34 with spikes to -3 to +4 (rarely) but average seems to be -.78. I'm not sure what would cause the high numbers so I'm looking for some help.

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Dude... if you’re catless you should get a custom tune. Also you’re running the wrong map. If you were catted you could just run the ots stage 2 map. Also general consensus for our cars is to run BPV instead of BOV
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Dude... if you’re catless you should get a custom tune. Also you’re running the wrong map. If you were catted you could just run the ots stage 2 map. Also general consensus for our cars is to run BPV instead of BOV
Yeah Ik, they installed it and it wasn't till I was at work when I realized it was the wrong tune. They put on a Turbo XS recirculating bov, they said they could put the stock back on if I want. I can't really tell a difference.

The high numbers couldn't be from the P0171 I've had since I bought the car? Would the wrong tune have this affect as well?

Wish there was someone at a reasonable distance that did pro tunes, I live in a small town and no pro tunes for 100s of miles.

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You can always do an etune to accommodate for the lack of a protune in your area. If it’s recirculating it may be fine but personally if it was an additional charge I would just throw the stock one on since it’s a true bpv. As far as the code you’re getting I’m not too sure about the reason you’re getting it. Could be a few reasons why you’re running lean
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So discovered something when changing to the stage 2 map. I might have a 02 ECU on my 03 with a 05 engine, I plugged in the green test connectors and then tried to find where the white connector (that Cobb's says is for 03-05) hooks up to and couldn't find anywhere that matched it, the blue connector the AP came with (Cobb's says for 02) fit like a glove. I must have an 02 ECU then or Cobb had a typo.

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I made the diy leak tool (intake coupler, PVC cap, male air connector). I'm just not sure what psi to set the regulator on the compressor at? Do I just need a small amount such as 10-25 psi or does it need a larger amount such as 50-100 psi?l

Anything else I should be aware of before doing this test?

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Start off at 10 you can go up to 15-20psi max I believe. Some people recommend taking off the engine oil cap. There should be a few websites that list the steps or YouTube it
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I performed the test this evening. When I was removing some hoses I noticed the one from the purge valve to manifold moved around a lot with no effort so when I was done with the test I put hose clamps on them. I did find a leak, I'll have to get a pic of it bc I'm not sure of the part but it was a hose toward the back passenger side, kind of in front/under the top mount intercooler and it went under, and connected to what looked like a plastic part. I could not see where it was connected below but I could hear and feel the air, I put soapy water on to make sure and it bubbled right from the end of the hose like the clamp wasn't tight enough. I tightened the clamp but unfortunately didn't have time to make sure it solved the leak bc it became dark. I'll have to do another test to make sure it's good. I cleared the P0171 and going to see if it comes back on. Drove the car and it seemed like it had so much more power and was hitting over 15psi of boost where before I was staying around 12psi at the same rpms/speed.

My AF Correction 1 numbers were staying very high, 18%-25% even at idle. I pulled over and shut car off and my idle went back to normal staying between -1.48% to 2%. Seems 45 mph and under I stay around 7%-12% but over 45 my numbers are the same as before. The car doesn't seem to have any symptoms, little surge at cold start. Idles perfect when warm, power is there, no hesitations or anything. Just confused why my numbers remain high. Should I stay right around 8% even when going up hills, around corners, etc? Should I never see numbers as high as I'm getting?

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Do not concern yourself with AF correction values.

What are the AF Learning values in all the cells (there are 4)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I performed the test this evening. When I was removing some hoses I noticed the one from the purge valve to manifold moved around a lot with no effort so when I was done with the test I put hose clamps on them. I did find a leak, I'll have to get a pic of it bc I'm not sure of the part but it was a hose toward the back passenger side, kind of in front/under the top mount intercooler and it went under, and connected to what looked like a plastic part. I could not see where it was connected below but I could hear and feel the air, I put soapy water on to make sure and it bubbled right from the end of the hose like the clamp wasn't tight enough. I tightened the clamp but unfortunately didn't have time to make sure it solved the leak bc it became dark. I'll have to do another test to make sure it's good. I cleared the P0171 and going to see if it comes back on. Drove the car and it seemed like it had so much more power and was hitting over 15psi of boost where before I was staying around 12psi at the same rpms/speed.

My AF Correction 1 numbers were staying very high, 18%-25% even at idle. I pulled over and shut car off and my idle went back to normal staying between -1.48% to 2%. Seems 45 mph and under I stay around 7%-12% but over 45 my numbers are the same as before. The car doesn't seem to have any symptoms, little surge at cold start. Idles perfect when warm, power is there, no hesitations or anything. Just confused why my numbers remain high. Should I stay right around 8% even when going up hills, around corners, etc? Should I never see numbers as high as I'm getting?

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Do not concern yourself with AF correction values.

What are the AF Learning values in all the cells (there are 4)?
I'll have to change the gauges and take it for a drive on my lunch break and get back to you on those numbers. I've seen other posts referencing AF Correction with P0171 so I thought that's what I should be looking at. Obviously new to all this.

Basically I'm trying to figure out what gauges to look at to try and help diagnose the P0171, I don't want to spend $200-$400 for O2 and MAF unless I'm certain it's one of those.

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I'll have to change the gauges and take it for a drive on my lunch break and get back to you on those numbers. I've seen other posts referencing AF Correction with P0171 so I thought that's what I should be looking at. Obviously new to all this.

Basically I'm trying to figure out what gauges to look at to try and help diagnose the P0171, I don't want to spend $200-$400 for O2 and MAF unless I'm certain it's one of those.

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Start by looking at AF Learning. The AF Learning is capped at +/- 15% for the Bosch ECU and +/-25% for the Hitachi ECU.

If the Learning is capped and the ECU is attempting to apply additional correction via the AF Correction values, then there is a problem with the air metering and/or fueling. BOVs often leak and serve no purpose -- you should reinstall the OEM piece with a NEW gasket.

Fluctuation in AF Correction is normal even for a properly functioning setup -- the reason for this is complicated and requires a healthy understanding of the O2 sensor and fueling strategy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Start by looking at AF Learning. The AF Learning is capped at +/- 15% for the Bosch ECU and +/-25% for the Hitachi ECU.

If the Learning is capped and the ECU is attempting to apply additional correction via the AF Correction values, then there is a problem with the air metering and/or fueling. BOVs often leak and serve no purpose -- you should reinstall the OEM piece with a NEW gasket.

Fluctuation in AF Correction is normal even for a properly functioning setup -- the reason for this is complicated and requires a healthy understanding of the O2 sensor and fueling strategy.
Thank you. They just threw the Turbo XS recirculating BOV on without asking and it was all free of charge, they said they would switch it back if I don't want it. I'll have them do that when they get back from OBX this week, it won't decrease performance/power by going back to OEM? The OEM should perform the same or better?

They did test the voltage on the O2 and said it was good, is volt test a reliable method?

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Do not concern yourself with AF correction values.

What are the AF Learning values in all the cells (there are 4)?
Cold Idle:
AF learning 1: +10.16
AF learning 1A: +10.35
AF learning 1B: +9.18
AF learning 1C: +14.99
AF learning 1D: 0.00
Idle after warm
1: +7.03 to +10
1A: +7.62 to +10
1B: +11.72 to +12.21
1C: +14.99
1D: 0.00
While Driving
1: +14.84
1A: +7.62
1B:+11.43
1C: +14.99
1D: 0.00

High/Low History
1: +1.56/+14.84
1A: +2.15/+11.43
1B: +9.18/+12.40
1C: +14.99/+14.99
1D: 0.00/0.0

Once back at work from lunch I was idling taking down these numbers and my 1: was +1.56 to +3.12 and 1A +2.15 to +4.00 but held pretty steady at +2.34 for both, dropping and holding at the low number for awhile, fan kicking on raises them to +4.69.

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Here are the numbers on my way home (50 miles). All +

1:
On gas 14.84 whole time. Let off gas would drop to 11.72, 10.16, 10.06, then 9.38. These numbers would change every 10 miles for the decel. Idle 3.12

1A:
Started at 3.03 and moved to 3.52 quick and stayed even at idle except the last 10 miles it jumped to 4.20

1B:
Started at 12.70 and moved down throughout drive to 11.72, 10.18, 9.77, the last 2 miles climbed to 13.77 I did have a spike to 24.90 and a drop to 0.00 but for a second.

1C:
Stayed at 14.99 except a drop for a second to 14.89 and 14.60

1D:
Stayed at 0.00

Pulled in driveway and 1 climbed to 11.72 and 1A 12 (fan kicked on) and now slowly dropping, 1 9.17 1A 9.28 and climb for 1 10.16 and holding 1A 10.45 and holding. 1B still 13.77, boost -9.

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Cobb thinks it's my catless dp causing the CEL since there tune is meant for a catted.

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Cobb thinks it's my catless dp causing the CEL since there tune is meant for a catted.

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Who did you talk to at Cobb? Seems unlikely, but I admit I don't know the conditions that produce that CEL. However, I do know that...

Here are the numbers on my way home (50 miles). All +

1:
On gas 14.84 whole time. Let off gas would drop to 11.72, 10.16, 10.06, then 9.38. These numbers would change every 10 miles for the decel. Idle 3.12

1A:
Started at 3.03 and moved to 3.52 quick and stayed even at idle except the last 10 miles it jumped to 4.20

1B:
Started at 12.70 and moved down throughout drive to 11.72, 10.18, 9.77, the last 2 miles climbed to 13.77 I did have a spike to 24.90 and a drop to 0.00 but for a second.

1C:
Stayed at 14.99 except a drop for a second to 14.89 and 14.60

1D:
Stayed at 0.00

Pulled in driveway and 1 climbed to 11.72 and 1A 12 (fan kicked on) and now slowly dropping, 1 9.17 1A 9.28 and climb for 1 10.16 and holding 1A 10.45 and holding. 1B still 13.77, boost -9.

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... Your long term fuel trims are maxed in load cell C, which is your typical cruise load on the highway. If you are running a Cobb map and it's the same as what I'm looking at, Cobb disables learning in load cell D hence the 0.

The "catless" diagnosis for the lean bank code does not make sense to me. The only time an exhaust modification would cause a lean condition is if it allows the engine to hit higher load cells than calibrated, or changes the dynamics of the O2 sensor for cruise (unlikely). If the load is properly calibrated that is... There are exceptions when the VE of an engine can be adjusted through valve timing or cam profile events.

1. Can you confirm that you have an EJ205?
2. Stock turbo with catless exhaust?
3. Running OTS Cobb Stage 2?

If so, the likelihood of this being caused by a catless downpipe is extremely low. Most people run catless downpipes on stage 2 bugeyes. This is probably a reasonable vac leak.
 

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Wait. You said catless uppipe.

Did you do the resistor modification on the EGT sensor?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Who did you talk to at Cobb? Seems unlikely, but I admit I don't know the conditions that produce that CEL. However, I do know that...



... Your long term fuel trims are maxed in load cell C, which is your typical cruise load on the highway. If you are running a Cobb map and it's the same as what I'm looking at, Cobb disables learning in load cell D hence the 0.

The "catless" diagnosis for the lean bank code does not make sense to me. The only time an exhaust modification would cause a lean condition is if it allows the engine to hit higher load cells than calibrated, or changes the dynamics of the O2 sensor for cruise (unlikely). If the load is properly calibrated that is... There are exceptions when the VE of an engine can be adjusted through valve timing or cam profile events.

1. Can you confirm that you have an EJ205?
2. Stock turbo with catless exhaust?
3. Running OTS Cobb Stage 2?

If so, the likelihood of this being caused by a catless downpipe is extremely low. Most people run catless downpipes on stage 2 bugeyes. This is probably a reasonable vac leak.
Talked to Brandyn at Cobb.

Stock motor from a 2005 WRX with 70,XXX miles, stock turbo, completely catless exhaust, and running Cobb OTS stage 2.

Wait. You said catless uppipe.

Did you do the resistor modification on the EGT sensor?
Yes catless uppipe was put in as well, egt sensor is in but I will be removing and doing the resistor mod.

I've been getting the CEL pretty much since I bought the car, when I bought the car it was 100% in 03 stock form with the 05 motor.

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