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Hello everyone; :wave: I just saw a video on You Tube with pictures of what is rumored to be 2020 STI, it was the futuristic looking one that we've all been seeing for the last couple of years now. The narrator said that the next generation STI will be available with a CVT transmission ONLY, and boy what a shock to the system that was. Does anyone know if Subaru has confirmed or hopefully denied this? I will probably be in the market by the time the '20 models are ready to come out, and if the STI no longer has a manual transmission, I will certainly have to look elsewhere.
 

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Subaru won’t say, mention, suggest, confirm, deny, or otherwise comment on future sti models until they are unveiled to the public.
 

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I believe it was stated a year or so ago by the higher ups that the manual transmission would not be leaving the STI. There was a link to an article or two. This was during the beginning of the CVT rumors. There may be a CVT option, but I don't see the manual transmission option going away.
 

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but I don't see the manual transmission option going away.
Oh boy, oh boy, I certainly do.

Subaru's modern theme is that their cars are for people that love nature. Hard to live by that mantra when their halo car has one of the highest CO2 footprints of any car in its class. They will need to do better, and they know it. Expect the next generation STI (if there is one) to focus on efficiency and appeal. I'd say an electrified STI with 2.0L or smaller is in the cards. CVT is more efficient and plays well with their other toys -- safety equipment. With a declining manual-focused market, this just makes sense. Subaru doesn't have the R&D to support frequent platform redesigns, so their next debut will need to be relevant for 10 years or longer.

Sorry boys, the Manual is dead.
 

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Oh boy, oh boy, I certainly do.

Subaru's modern theme is that their cars are for people that love nature. Hard to live by that mantra when their halo car has one of the highest CO2 footprints of any car in its class. They will need to do better, and they know it. Expect the next generation STI (if there is one) to focus on efficiency and appeal. I'd say an electrified STI with 2.0L or smaller is in the cards. CVT is more efficient and plays well with their other toys -- safety equipment. With a declining manual-focused market, this just makes sense. Subaru doesn't have the R&D to support frequent platform redesigns, so their next debut will need to be relevant for 10 years or longer.

Sorry boys, the Manual is dead.
I'd be more inclined to believe in an electrical variant if their first shot at the hybrid in the crosstrek wasn't so pathetic it got pulled after 1 year.
 

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if its a proper dual clutch auto, agreed to some extent.

if its a CVT variant that's extremely limited on power and as underwhelming as current...you bet
No. CVT is indeed the future for the ailing ICE.

It has more potential in terms of performance and efficiency. What's the advantage of a dual clutch? Faster shifts? The CVT doesn't even need to shift. Subaru is correct to jump on this bandwagon.
 

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faster shifts but also rigidity.

the current CVT offered in the WRX is limited to about 300/300 before it explodes; while the manuals get up to 400/350 at sea level with bolt ons and hold tight.

That being said, even thought he CVT technically doesn't shift, it still adjusts the belt and such as going up the RPMs/speeds and I would bet still takes longer to perform said action in comparison to GMs A10, VWs DSG, and Porsches PDK.

I think in terms of efficiency and driveability, it's probably the best solution for moms car, especially because it doesn't need to downshift like the others.

For a performance car like the STI, it would completely cripple it.
 

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faster shifts but also rigidity.

the current CVT offered in the WRX is limited to about 300/300 before it explodes; while the manuals get up to 400/350 at sea level with bolt ons and hold tight.

That being said, even thought he CVT technically doesn't shift, it still adjusts the belt and such as going up the RPMs/speeds and I would bet still takes longer to perform said action in comparison to GMs A10, VWs DSG, and Porsches PDK.

I think in terms of efficiency and driveability, it's probably the best solution for moms car, especially because it doesn't need to downshift like the others.

For a performance car like the STI, it would completely cripple it.
You are completely missing the point of the CVT. It can hold the RPMs exactly at peak power or peak torque. There is no shift necessary! With regards to "how quickly it adjusts," what's your point? It's clearly able to adjust as quickly to keep the RPMs static, so your argument makes absolutely no sense. Acceleration loss occurs between shifts, of which there are none in the CVT.

Who cares about how much power the transmission can hold? If Subaru needs to develop a CVT that can hold, say 500NM of torque, and the car produces 450NM of torque with adequate safety margin, that's proper engineering.
 

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have you been in a CVT WRX during a launch or performance driving? you're wrong.

it definitely doesn't just keep the RPMs at 5500 or whatever from launch til 100mph. the RPMS still drop as it adjusts and continue to climb just like any other car, which causes acceleration loss. Does it shift faster then a person with a stickshift? yep. Does it shift faster then a competitive car with dual clutch autos? nope.

i forgot you're a stock nazi. too bad the gross demographic of STI owners are not. If subaru produces a car that blows up a transmission with basic mods and is a cvt automatic, sales will plummet.
My reasoning is because even now with competitors having much better platforms, sales of the STI still happen. Why? It has a pretty comparable drive train and it can be modified to gain quite a bit of HP from just bolt ons. If you take away the latter, and make the platform virtually modifiable without significant expense to keeping the transmission from exploding you can probably expect STI sales to drop to the level of CVT WRXs.

i'd put money on it.
 

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Having two CVT turbo Subarus in my garage, I can tell you the issues w/ the CVT from my personal experiences...including modding.

A lot of the issue is perception. You will NOT get the launch feel with it. There is close to ZERO power until it fully locks in and you're already at about 1900-2000 RPM when that happens. Even w/ a 'stage 2' tune...most of my power gains are in middle/upper territory. Performance oriented people may be turned off by this. I sort of am at this point. (car A.D.D has kicked in)

There ARE definitely power/tq limits. At least w/ the current gen CVT. You're safe until about 340-360 ft lbs, but w/ additional cooling mods needed...and that's really pushing it. Subaru would have to invest in much better cooling and more robust CVTs if it were to apply to an STI...especially a hybridized one w/ potentially low end TQ as electric/hybrid cars have. Maybe a beefier TQ converter/stall would be needed. This could get pricey and put the STI in a weird spot.

That's my 2-1/2 cents FWIW.
 

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good input Jaysin.

Basically my point.... either a dual clutch auto or a much more significantly built CVT would be needed. in it's current form it is far from STI readiness if the intention is to keep the same demographic and similar sales.
 

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good input Jaysin.

Basically my point.... either a dual clutch auto or a much more significantly built CVT would be needed. in it's current form it is far from STI readiness if the intention is to keep the same demographic and similar sales.
And the current gens will still have the same depreciation value just like the hatches did when they canned them.
 

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And the current gens will still have the same depreciation value just like the hatches did when they canned them.
From a pure mathematical value on a calculator such as KBB or dealership trade in, I agree.

However, I would argue that hatches typically can sell privately for more then their sedan counterparts because of their exclusivity. I would hope this same hype would be passed to the manual STI's of the past
 

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From a pure mathematical value on a calculator such as KBB or dealership trade in, I agree.

However, I would argue that hatches typically can sell privately for more then their sedan counterparts because of their exclusivity. I would hope this same hype would be passed to the manual STI's of the past
The hatch does. And its also area dependent. I get offers on mine constantly. Everytime I bring it to the dealer, they try to get me into a new STI for it. I cannot tell you how many notes are left on my car with a phone number. I've entertained a few offers, and it was a serious chunk for it. But.. Still have it. SOme reason :shurg:
 

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have you been in a CVT WRX during a launch or performance driving? you're wrong.

it definitely doesn't just keep the RPMs at 5500 or whatever from launch til 100mph. the RPMS still drop as it adjusts and continue to climb just like any other car, which causes acceleration loss. Does it shift faster then a person with a stickshift? yep. Does it shift faster then a competitive car with dual clutch autos? nope.

i forgot you're a stock nazi. too bad the gross demographic of STI owners are not. If subaru produces a car that blows up a transmission with basic mods and is a cvt automatic, sales will plummet.
My reasoning is because even now with competitors having much better platforms, sales of the STI still happen. Why? It has a pretty comparable drive train and it can be modified to gain quite a bit of HP from just bolt ons. If you take away the latter, and make the platform virtually modifiable without significant expense to keeping the transmission from exploding you can probably expect STI sales to drop to the level of CVT WRXs.

i'd put money on it.
If Subaru were to correctly implement the CVT logic, it would indeed be quicker than any dual clutch or TC auto.


Dare to be different, or cater to the rather stupid existing "performance" Subaru fanbase? The choice is Subaru's, but since WRX and STI sales are minimal compared to the pedestrian models, does it matter?
 

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I guess we will find out how much Subaru values the WRX / STI with this next version.
 

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With my bugeye now 16 years old I’ve begun considering whether I should search for a replacement.

However, there must be a reason!

I don’t think a different car would make sense for me unless I were to enjoy quantifiable improvements. This means the new car choices are limited to models with significantly reduced emissions compared to the bugeye, significantly improved fuel economy, and notably more power. Plus vehicle dynamics should be comparable if not better.

Who’s making a PZEV or better, 7L per 100 km or better, 200kW engined, AWD, manual gearbox car?

It’s an honest question. I’ll even break long-standing rules of taste and decency and quality (meaning I might — gasp! — consider something made in Germany even though they’re all rubbish).

Open to ideas.
 
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