ClubWRX Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Im new here but searched first and need help narrowing down an issue. The story is somewhat unique in terms of my luck.

So here is the frustrating situation for me. Test drove a 2017 wrx sport(canada) today. Drove fine. Car fax shows maintance done by subaru, it has 150,000km on the car(96k miles roughly right?)...anyways. price was good. Oil looked ok. Fluids were fine. Idled fine. Turbo hit right and it had alot of go. Signed the papers. Left the lot got five more minutes into driving. Started knocking. Called the dealer he said drive it back and they will take a look. Car stalled out(siezed?) Wouldn't start back up. My knock sounded loudest and most consistent coming off the throttle at first. And was intermittent at the start based on throttle application. Kind of like a heat shield but a knock.. anyways. I was just in the parking lot next to the dealer. He is getting it to a garage and figuring it out. But im assuming either bent rod or seized engine. It refused to start when the dealer tried and the engine was almost twisting against the engine mounts trying. I dont recall hearing knocking as it tried.


My theory is oil wasn't getting delivered to all the spots it needed.

When he tried to turn it over, I noticed massive torque put on the engine mounts and instead of shaking then engine tilted and stayed put until the start stopped trying. I didnt get to spin the crank to see if it seized but would you say that was a good indication of the same problem? I've never had this happen and I dont recall hearing a knock once the car finally died.. (unlike when in other fa20dit that fail, you can hear it knock when it starts or tries to turn over)
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,433 Posts
Whats a fa20dit? Fa20f? Your car specifically has the fa20f.

Your assumption is correct generally a single knock won't kill a motor and will never seize an engine. You likely bought a car that had been beat to shit, modified, and the tuning solution removed and car sold. Its going to be an expensive repair if the starter won't crank the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Whats a fa20dit? Fa20f? Your car specifically has the fa20f.

Your assumption is correct generally a single knock won't kill a motor and will never seize an engine. You likely bought a car that had been beat to shit, modified, and the tuning solution removed and car sold. Its going to be an expensive repair if the starter won't crank the engine.
Ya my bad. Fa20f. And im honestly hoping for worst case scenario non repairable engine. A swap would make my day.

I called the local subi dealer to ask. He said low to no oil most likely too. My buddy was trying to blame the knock on bad gas at first.


Do you think the twisting I watched the engine do leads to my assumption that its seized? I mean it could be anything besides oil still. Timing chain related, carbon build up taking its toll... or am I wrong and should basically consider it to be oil 100%.. as much as I know the other concerns don't go from knocking for a couple minutes to straight death of the engine. Lol
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,433 Posts
Did the engine just crank and not start and knock? If so bearing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Did the engine just crank and not start and knock? If so bearing.
The engine went from running. To running and knocking. To shutting off not starting not cranking. Just the starter making noise and the engine tourquing back hard on the mounts.

At best it tried to crank very very slowly once almost like a underpowered battery but thats not only new and clearly not the problem, the dealer thought he could boost the car for some reason and hooked the terminals up to another source.


I was fairly upset and not thinking straight about the issue itself as he was trying to turn it over. I would have in a regular mind checked the belt for movement and try to turn the pully.


I'm looking around for an example of the bearing causing the issue in a video right now so I can compare it to what I rememeber seeing this car do.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,433 Posts
If it won't crank at all it seized. Either way unless the company you got it from had some sort of guarantee or your state has customer protection laws prepare for a princely sum of cash to replace the engine. 10k is the going average.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
If it won't crank at all it seized. Either way unless the company you got it from had some sort of guarantee or your state has customer protection laws prepare for a princely sum of cash to replace the engine. 10k is the going average.
Oh the repairs are free. Its not only under the warranty of the purchase but the dealer took the car back himself and said he's doing it without using the purchased warranty. It sounds like he's willing to take the loss on his side fairly readily. Thank god. Canada seems pretty good about stuff like this being handled legally. My friend who's a sales manager told me as long as its not "as is where is" on the bill of sale he would be obligated to the repair anyways being that quick. It was a matter of 5 miles of driving and only the amount of time to do that driving.


A siezed engine means a new replacement engine for me. So thats best case scenario imo with buying the car with its mileage.
 

·
BooSTIng
Joined
·
2,835 Posts
Yup I am willing to bet any money a spun rod bearing leading to the engine being seized. Almost certain. How am I so certain? My STi spun a rod bearing and seized my engine. Almost identical to what you have described. What happened to mine as explained by the shop that pulled the motor, that one of the two rod bearings spun and when it did it spun in to the other one and dug itself in, preventing the crankshaft to spin freely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Yup I am willing to bet any money a spun rod bearing leading to the engine being seized. Almost certain. How am I so certain? My STi spun a rod bearing and seized my engine. Almost identical to what you have described. What happened to mine as explained by the shop that pulled the motor, that one of the two rod bearings spun and when it did it spun in to the other one and dug itself in, preventing the crankshaft to spin freely.
Did that result in a swap for a new motor? The pulley actually did look to have a slight wobble in it actually now that you mention it.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,433 Posts
Did that result in a swap for a new motor? The pulley actually did look to have a slight wobble in it actually now that you mention it.
You seem awfully eager for something that really sucks. Thats a little suspect.

There is a good possibility you eat the cost of this paperwork you sign at the dealership is never in your favor for things like this unless law requires otherwise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
You seem awfully eager for something that really sucks. Thats a little suspect.

There is a good possibility you eat the cost of this paperwork you sign at the dealership is never in your favor for things like this unless law requires otherwise.
Honestly I'm just trying to be fucking optimistic the inner canadian in this guy doesn't give me a hard time.

It was a matter of thirty minutes of ownership so legally its in my favor even if its a headache. Im emailing the guy my responses and documenting all conversion that way and had a witness with me thankfully. The other side to the coin is he's friends with the the majority of the firefighters I'm working with and they all speak highly of him. So ya. Maybe its sketchy as hell for me and could cost me 10,000 but im not gunna make it easy for him and its not as bleak looking on my part that it'll get rectified. I just want to do my due diligence and figure out this shit the best I can.

So far its looking like a spun bearing in his front yard moments after a sale. That comes up as suspect on his part in the first place on the integrity of the sale being made.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,433 Posts
All I'm telling you is be aware of any legal standing you have to defend yourself in this situation. There have been instances where dealerships have blown cars up on joyrides and tried to get owners to pay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,656 Posts
My buddy was trying to blame the knock on bad gas at first.
Is this like a new thing? I've read several posts within the past couple weeks of "buddies" pointing the blame at bad gas. As if after all of these years of gasoline production and distribution, within a few weeks around the country it suddenly sucks?

I think I've purchased vehicles before where there were return policies. Maybe all of them? Regardless, I'd tell them you want to back out of the deal. Pretend you want them to find another one to soften them up. Even if you have to forfeit some down payment cash, it's worth it. Lesson learned: Don't buy a high mileage WRX. Save for a newer one, or better yet new in general. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,656 Posts
The other side to the coin is he's friends with the the majority of the firefighters I'm working with and they all speak highly of him.
That's good news, because a friend and a "good guy" will certainly understand you want to return the car; end of story. Get rid of the car, because you're off to a horrible start with it. Anyone would understand. Don't let yourself be guilted into keeping it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
That's good news, because a friend and a "good guy" will certainly understand you want to return the car; end of story. Get rid of the car, because you're off to a horrible start with it. Anyone would understand. Don't let yourself be guilted into keeping it.
I really shouldn't keep it. I am looking into the legality of the situation and 90% points to being able to back out of the purchase for up to 30 days. I opened a claim with our mediator for these situations in Canada as tentative.

Now though. Theoretically speaking. 2017, immaculate body, all oem parts with subaru service history, very low cost (probably because they were aware of engine on way out I know.)

Here is the response I got to me state I was very hesitant ttokeep the car

"You have nothing to worry about, we have another engine on the way and will be installed for you next week. You are more than welcome to use our vehicle in the meantime, we know you love the wrx, and the repair won’t cost you a penny, we are taking care of the entire bill. If you have any questions feel free to give me a call anytime."



Can you guys help me out with some fair questions. I tried to source a used and new engine for shits and giggles. $5000 usd was lowest and 11,000 the highest. In Canada the dollar value difference is large..

If he went to subaru and ordered a crate engine for the swap would you guys still consider the purchase at 14,000$ usd roughly. I cant see how he's making money, and it appears he got caught in between a rock and hard place trying to be shady in my honest opinion because he is legally on the hook for the repair. (Hense his super friendly and open to the repair attitude)





If the engines used. Its still 5000$ plus for the motor and the repair will be alot more in labor.


I am considering driving the car into subaru for a full diagnostic and compression test in either scenario (new or used) regardless of not if i even decide to keep the car. Simply because I want answers to the whole situation..

But what could I ask him?

What can I ask the mechanic? (who doesn't know me or know me as the car owner as it may be in my favor he doesnt)

What should I get subi to pull up on top of the swap details. (Turbo life, diff condition) can they see if a cobb was programmed to the car then removed?


(Also i am going to ask to keep the old engine if I continue trucking through with the purchase against best advice... I mean, a backup blow motor will still have alot of good parts and may be salvageable if its a spun bearing that caused it correct? That would be an awesome side project/fallback)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
This could become a good learning experience over all I can share with anyone going into buying a used subaru. At least in Canada. So I want to take as much information as I can from the whole thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,656 Posts
"You have nothing to worry about, we have another engine on the way and will be installed for you next week. You are more than welcome to use our vehicle in the meantime, we know you love the wrx, and the repair won’t cost you a penny, we are taking care of the entire bill. If you have any questions feel free to give me a call anytime."
Bro. You were on the path to making the right decision. Then, they tickle your peter for two seconds and you're hooked again. Literally the only extra they added that any other dealership 'might' not is "we know you love your WRX." Every other word in there is copied from the customer service 101 handbook.

You have no idea where this motor is coming from or if it will be properly installed. Even in your gut you don't trust them, since you're preparing to take on extra hardships by having someone check their work, which is no guarantee. I don't think Subaru is going to give you a green light on anyone else's work. That's a liability for them.

Do not let them take advantage of you and guilt you into taking the car. They're going to put as little money into the car as they possibly have to, because at this point they have to try to recoup some of their losses. Even if you made the terrible decision to keep a car that blew up on you on your way home, it had better be damned well getting a brand new engine and you should be given some compensation for the big inconvenience.

Get out of the deal while you can. Trust me, they're crossing their fingers hoping you're naive enough not to call.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,433 Posts
I can't say it any better than that.

Buy a good car. Don't buy a crap car and try and make it good
 

·
BooSTIng
Joined
·
2,835 Posts
Did that result in a swap for a new motor? The pulley actually did look to have a slight wobble in it actually now that you mention it.
Yes. The shortblock had to be replaced. I went all out and now have a fully built engine capable of holding up to 1200hp. But it is not cheap. I am on board with what everyone else is telling you. This is a new to you car. Return it and wash your hands with it. Move on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Yes. The shortblock had to be replaced. I went all out and now have a fully built engine capable of holding up to 1200hp. But it is not cheap. I am on board with what everyone else is telling you. This is a new to you car. Return it and wash your hands with it. Move on.
I sent the email stating I want to wash my hands of this car because of its rough start to new ownership. Hoepfully he doesn't put up a fight but knowing there is between a 14-30 day legal time restraint on getting out, I think he will make it painless. Will probably ding me with a restocking fee of 500$ but honestly thats nothing compared to how bad this could be.

For shits and giggles I ran the Vin in carfax on the replacement engine and looked at the donor cars photos and found out the car was in "revd performance " calagry. They couldn't give me tune or mod info without the owners name but I seen an aem exhaust on the car. The engine has 38,000km.

Last thing I want is exactly what you guys warn me may happen. Ill just go new sti and have a reliable car in a few months.

Thanks for all the advice...


On the opposite side of the coin. If I am stuck with this car at this time, I'm sure we will see some mods coming mighty quick. The mechanic is trying to take me for 1000$ claiming core charge on the old engine but the people he bought the donor from say they don't want the old engine and had zero core charge on it when they confirmed the purchase was indeed made thursday.

(jstruckmart Saskatchewan the photos are good enough to see the exhaust tips but no other mods. The damages look to have missed the engine but possibly reached the intake.) I'll update if I am stuck with or get out of this potential shitty situation




Thanks for the input guys!
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top