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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, sooo I plan on making a huge.... "Financial Adventure" with an STI Motor/Tranny and AWD but first I need a couple of things and answers I hope I can get answered.

Let me first let you know what this will be going into. A 1986 190e Mercedes... some of you might ask why but others may be intrigued. This is no overnight project nor a progression build that will even happen over the next 2 years. Im planning 4 years with many headaches and lots of labor saved on the changing of the engine bay and transferring the AWD system into the body. I want the STi build for 2 reasons...

A) Im lookin at big numbers with this long of a build both in the Finances and the HP/Tq areas.

B)I have a 5 speed Dogleg Ge-trag at the moment a 6speed will be a whole lot nicer.

Ok I lied 3....

C)AWD... Ive seen the Supra engine and LSx installed into a 190e, Ive also seen various newer and more sought after engines in the mercedes realm. Never an AWD and Never a Subaru.


I am curious though as I know there is a junk 05-06 WRX long block lying around near by I could mock up the engine mounts and placement in the 190e engine bay, but an STi not a chance in hell. Do these match up the same? Do they both fit the same or are easily swapped within your bodies?

Im not joking and Im not settling for the 2.0 as changing the entire build of the car will be a huge financial burden in it self... better install something worthwhile while at it right?
 

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They both fit the same in the engine bay and use the same mounts. Width wise from head cover to head cover, it should be the same.

You're going to have a hell of a time getting AWD to work on that car. Remember that the entire engine on a Subaru is mounted ahead of the axle. A 190E does not have much room to accomodate this kind of drive train. Without elongating the front end and probably relocating the radiator, I don't see how this is going to work. You may have to settle for a RWD conversion if you are that intent on using a Subaru drivetrain.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have though about this already... its something ill have to make sure to focus on more when it comes time. It's my hopes that it will work as its a pretty long engine bay already. But the wheel base is I think the biggest issue. I appreciate the info though as this will make it much easier to find a wrx crippled to piece out for the build. I'll be doing most of the work myself except for welding and body work I'll have a friend whose much more talented with that help. But he's helping for beer and pizza so I can't expect over night work. This is why 4years seems like a better Outlook. However if it winds up being just a rwd setup then I could see 2 years.
 

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If you are really looking for big numbers, then perhaps its not the engine for you? Yes you can get 450whp in a Subaru chassis with a big rotated turbo, but you have to build the block to be able to handle that otherwise you're gonna just blow through engines. You're looking at needing a fat wallet over these 4 years.

Sounds like an intriguing build though. We'd love if you stuck around and made a build thread for this project.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Mikie13- I have a friend in town who has built a 800whp subbie with upgrading the block. I'm in the northwest corridor and there are plenty of people here with subaru knowledge for building big HP/tq blocks... I've already begun setting aside an account specifically for this build. I don't expect it to be any less than 20g for the block build and sourcing an sti motor. I do plan on being a steady motor once I find a good wrx shell/motor from the jy for the engine bay modifcations. I will definitely be looking for more information from you all as time goes by. I've done some work with a buddies subbie but never owned one. So this is a project to learn from. I'm used to building off road machines. So I'm not totally lost, even thought about a wrx motor for a i4 jeep build for the top mount jntercooler.

Curious though about cosworths reliability as of now I have a cos 190 16v but it was built by someone with no mechanical knowledge and upgrading the engine would cost me more having one off parts. But Yah how are they now compared to the 80s when they began their ventures in Europe?
 

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I have though about this already... its something ill have to make sure to focus on more when it comes time. It's my hopes that it will work as its a pretty long engine bay already. But the wheel base is I think the biggest issue. I appreciate the info though as this will make it much easier to find a wrx crippled to piece out for the build. I'll be doing most of the work myself except for welding and body work I'll have a friend whose much more talented with that help. But he's helping for beer and pizza so I can't expect over night work. This is why 4years seems like a better Outlook. However if it winds up being just a rwd setup then I could see 2 years.
Wheel base will definitely be your biggest pain I think. Going to be a LOT of custom work and built-to-spec parts. Just trying to help cover your bases is all. :)

Definitely keep us updated on the build. Many people here will enjoy seeing how this goes, myself included. As for Cosworth, they build engines for a lot of specific Subaru projects, and as you are no doubt aware, for many other manufacturers. You can buy completely assembled Cosworth engineered longblocks for < $16000 if that's something you're interested in. A guy here in SLC has a 2006 WRX with a Cosworth block pushing 517HP on race gas. 497HP on 91.

Cosworth 2.5L APS TSR70 500+whp - NASIOC

I'm going to bet on this turning out to be a RWD set up, not to be a nay-sayer, just seems like that's the logical result from all of this. Either way it's going to be interesting.
 

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Yeah I've heard a lot of mixed things about Cosworth...some good, some bad.

Subaru released 400 special Cosworth editions in the UK a couple years back I remember reading (it was a conjoined effort I think)...yet I've heard of people blowing up a Cosworth block easier than a regular STI block.
Some think you can spend a lot less money and build up an STI block to be much better by boring it out and sleeving it, adding your own components, etc...Which is personally what I'd do...I've also heard that Cosworth is quick to dismiss any issues and if you do blow up a Cosworth block, they won't help and you're SOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
funny you say that. Some guys from Thailand who race the 190e cosworths asked Cosworth for the specs on the head which is what cosworth developed for it. So they could attempt to start building more even asked if cosworth would back it. Yet they actually said "No sorry we don't keep the designs that far back..." I was kinda disappointed(and shocked 85-89 is far back?) cause there are a lot of people out there who would upgrade the head for the 16v due to compression ratio and the extra 8v. Cosworth would make money... Never the less blowing money on that particular engine would be wasteful and dis-tasteful. It has potential, there was a member of the 190 forum who built his to 569whp. You then negate ever it being a classic again. Its worth drops. I have an engine and Tranny but the VINs wont match up after the swap... again making the car worthless. So this is my reasoning. Ill be placing the motor in for now though I think mainly cause I hate driving a Geo Prizm.

Good numbers on the link. I think if I went with an Engineered Block Id go with AMS. Mainly cause they have worked with the Euro world as well and have been very reputable. But thats 16Gs for just the long block... which is rated at safely producing 800hp. If Im spending close to 20Gs on a long block pre-built I think Id want it to be closer to the magic 1000hp. Which Im sure I could have custom built instead, but I think boring and sleeving will be what Ill do to reduce cost on my own accord. The only issue is my work and my friends work wont be covered by a 1 year manufacturers warranty. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Rough... But Smooth

Well gentlemen, I may have some bad news for the build... but good news for my family. I will let you know when a professional tells me its the real deal.
 

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Sounds like a lot of work. I almost got myself into something similar and more mild but decided against it since of the money pit..
 

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See if you can stuff a Merc six or eight into it. Think "budget Baby Hammer" for the eight I guess. There are some 190E 2.3-16 and 2.5-16 bits floating around, but I've never seen any 2.5-16 Evolution clips in the wild so that's out. I'd find a bashed up 300E and let the torch do the talking.
 
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