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Discussion Starter #1
So first off the STI has always been my favorite car of the two. I currently own an 04 for proof of that. Before i knew anything about engines the STI to me was a better car. With all factors included I still believe it is a better car. Keep in mind, before i bought the car I had a very little amount of knowledge about engines, whether it comes to compressions tests or what an egr valve is. I just had none.

Currently I am enrolled in a technical college getting my degree in automotive. My teacher and I recently had a discussion over the STI's flat four engine. My teacher is a very knowledgable person. With every bit of spare time we have we talk cars whether they be new age or old. He has an opinion based on fact on every engine that has come out since the 50's and they are all just that, an opinion based on fact. Dont get me wrong, my teacher, when it comes to cars is the most logical man around. My teacher stated a couple things regarding the engine and one thing regarding subaru. All of which i took in stride defending my love of subies and their boxter rumble to find out the following.

1. When it comes to subaru, the sti is not the first thing that comes to mind.
2. The reason for having a different engine such as the flat four is one of two things, the company says we are different so people will buy our cars or screw the rest of the world were different anyway so people will buy our cars anyway. He stated that the reason for building an engine like that is no longer needed, when it comes to the flat four engine (boxter motor) the engine was created for the purpose of an air cooled engine (He stated something else but at the moment i cant recall what he said, you get the idea.)
3. Some clear points he made had to do with disassembly and reassembly of the engine itself, also flaws with the engine design itself. He stated that when working on the engine when it came to disassembling and reassembling when putting the two camshafts along with the crankshaft in the middle along with all the other components something got screwed up. Torrosional vibration and rough idling also occurered with the engine, to quote "9 times out of 10 if a subie engine died it was due to a bottom end problem."

So let me put my feelings into perspective. When it comes to the reason why i purchased the car it goes like this. I knew the flat four engine was not a very modifiable engine. With the cylinders being on the bottom of the engine a simple compression test or power balance test or even changing the spark plugs on the engine is quite tedious. I purchased the car because it looked better than the evo, offered a better interior, offered more power stock, and still I believe is a better car all around.

The reason I posted this forum was to ask some questions and see what kind of responses I got, it kind of goes like if you take a ford vs chevy motor guy and put them in the same room they'll both call each others engines pieces of **** until the sun comes up. In my mind, when it comes to things like testing the cylinders for compression or inspecting the crankshaft or camshafts it seems like these are things that would come in perspective when rebuilding the EJ207. It just seems to reinforce my theory regarding the STi vs. Evo. The evo seems to be the car that you mod the **** out of and the STi seems to be the car you DONT mod the **** out of and is your daily driver, like my teacher has told me if your going to hot rod, do it on something else. You need something to get from point A to point B.

Maybe im looking for some reinforcement on my purchase or maybe im not, im just trying to get the side of people who own wrx's because honestly when I think about wrx's and my friends who owned them versus my friend who owned evo's it seemed like the wrx's had WAY too much fun with their cars and the evo drivers didnt. :thumbup:
 

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It's a little bit more complicated then what your teacher is making it out to be.

The boxer design serves a few more purposes and has a few more down sides as well.

Subaru claims the boxer allows for better handling due to lower CG on the motor. Which is true but where they placed the motor also hinders it's handlings.

The rough idle has nothing to do with them lasting IMHO.

Some of the earlier 2.5's (I assume it's what your teacher is referring to) had some HG issues which of course make it a pain to replace. They got a fairly bad rap from that with mechinics I believe.

If you keep up with the maintance on the wrx/sti's motor there is no reason why you SHOULDNT (more times then not) be able to go into the 150-200k mark. There are several oil anaylizes done on 100k+ ej205's which indicate they are ticking strong.


As far as making one faster then the other that's kind of a mute point for most. For the average person a stock STI is faster then you need. Once you go stage 2 you are quicker then atleast 95% of the cars on the street. Anything past that is more or less bragging rights IMHO as many of the FP, 20g, gt30/35R's NEVER see track time. The rare few that do are often times ran into the low 13's. This comes from people with to much money, a good tuner who can sell parts, and no idea of what they want/need other then a crazy HP number. Just about every modern day "fast" car has owners like this.


Subaru's engine design IMHO is fine. They are a bit behind on the direct injection world. A DI ej25 with a TD04 would have MONSTER torque at a very low RPM. Once you start talking a DI'd STI you'd have a great platform as long as they leave you enough injectors to tune with.

Subaru does have it flaws. The paint is awful. The interior rattles way to much. They flount the "race car" image until something breaks. Simple things like folding rear seats take 3-4 generations to get. They do not offer a reasonable "dealership staged" upgrade for either suspension or drivetrain. They "package" everything together instead of giving you an option list. The dealerships are usually awful. It's not hard to know more about your car then the tech, service writer, or even sales manager. Their ECU tuning from 04+ has left alot to be admired. And they refuse to upgrade the tires on the wrx and continue to let it lose to just about every other car in it's class as magazine shootouts.


That just skims the list of things that I think Subaru is doing wrong. Putting in a H-4 to be "different" or however you want to see it is fine in my book as long as they keep lasting 130k+ before you are even worrying about them.
 

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So first off the STI has always been my favorite car of the two. I currently own an 04 for proof of that. Before i knew anything about engines the STI to me was a better car. With all factors included I still believe it is a better car. Keep in mind, before i bought the car I had a very little amount of knowledge about engines, whether it comes to compressions tests or what an egr valve is. I just had none.

Currently I am enrolled in a technical college getting my degree in automotive. My teacher and I recently had a discussion over the STI's flat four engine. My teacher is a very knowledgable person. With every bit of spare time we have we talk cars whether they be new age or old. He has an opinion based on fact on every engine that has come out since the 50's and they are all just that, an opinion based on fact. Dont get me wrong, my teacher, when it comes to cars is the most logical man around. My teacher stated a couple things regarding the engine and one thing regarding subaru. All of which i took in stride defending my love of subies and their boxter rumble to find out the following.

1. When it comes to subaru, the sti is not the first thing that comes to mind.
2. The reason for having a different engine such as the flat four is one of two things, the company says we are different so people will buy our cars or screw the rest of the world were different anyway so people will buy our cars anyway. He stated that the reason for building an engine like that is no longer needed, when it comes to the flat four engine (boxter motor) the engine was created for the purpose of an air cooled engine (He stated something else but at the moment i cant recall what he said, you get the idea.)
3. Some clear points he made had to do with disassembly and reassembly of the engine itself, also flaws with the engine design itself. He stated that when working on the engine when it came to disassembling and reassembling when putting the two camshafts along with the crankshaft in the middle along with all the other components something got screwed up. Torrosional vibration and rough idling also occurered with the engine, to quote "9 times out of 10 if a subie engine died it was due to a bottom end problem."

So let me put my feelings into perspective. When it comes to the reason why i purchased the car it goes like this. I knew the flat four engine was not a very modifiable engine. With the cylinders being on the bottom of the engine a simple compression test or power balance test or even changing the spark plugs on the engine is quite tedious. I purchased the car because it looked better than the evo, offered a better interior, offered more power stock, and still I believe is a better car all around.

The reason I posted this forum was to ask some questions and see what kind of responses I got, it kind of goes like if you take a ford vs chevy motor guy and put them in the same room they'll both call each others engines pieces of **** until the sun comes up. In my mind, when it comes to things like testing the cylinders for compression or inspecting the crankshaft or camshafts it seems like these are things that would come in perspective when rebuilding the EJ207. It just seems to reinforce my theory regarding the STi vs. Evo. The evo seems to be the car that you mod the **** out of and the STi seems to be the car you DONT mod the **** out of and is your daily driver, like my teacher has told me if your going to hot rod, do it on something else. You need something to get from point A to point B.

Maybe im looking for some reinforcement on my purchase or maybe im not, im just trying to get the side of people who own wrx's because honestly when I think about wrx's and my friends who owned them versus my friend who owned evo's it seemed like the wrx's had WAY too much fun with their cars and the evo drivers didnt. :thumbup:

well all i can say is that i love my wrx.. i would expect sti owners to love their car even more.. but i've found a few too be too cocky about the car..calling the wrx the underdog i think think that the wrx owners love more their cars cuz they know they arent the fastest thing out there.. but when u upgrade them with simple and cheap parts coming from the sti.. u can always make them a mean machine, that will beat a stage 2 sti with some good tunning, with much less money, the only thing i dont like about the wrx is the weak trannys they have..i've gone through one and im pretty sure the one i have now wont last too long, i'll be upgrading to RA gears when the time comes.. but till then.. im gonna keep enjoying my car as much as possible.. evos in the other hand.. are so easy to mod.. and make huge gains of hp with simple bolt ons.. its pretty insane.. my future plans in getting one. and mod the **** out of it.. and keep my scooby as a daily driver, a fast daily driver..lol
 

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Discussion Starter #4
hmm, disaster I believe you missed my point for writing my post, Im not trying to go faster, or throw bolt on's on my car, that was kind of a small portion of my findings that had to do with the difference of the two. Like 302 stated above the car is as fast as it needs to be. My concerns are more, how long can my car last.
 

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hmm, disaster I believe you missed my point for writing my post, Im not trying to go faster, or throw bolt on's on my car, that was kind of a small portion of my findings that had to do with the difference of the two. Like 302 stated above the car is as fast as it needs to be. My concerns are more, how long can my car last.
i've seen some around 210k miles.. with even some abuse.... i go to subaru meetings.. and for some reason ppl love to put thousands of miles in these cars.... mine had 100k when i got it..but then i blew my engine at 105k, i replaced the pistons and rings myself.. and so far i have 125k and no problems yet... i drive it as hard as i can.. and the pistons that i added are the stock ones.. also i have a wrx.. so i expect the life of the sti to be longer, cuz they come with better rods and pistons.. from my experience.. dont use mbc.. and dont go 2psi over the stock boost without a tune.. besides that.. these engines can take a beating
 

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My concerns are more, how long can my car last.
I think that I took pretty good care of my '04 WRX. I stuck to regular oil changes at least every 5k miles and never used anything but 93 octane fuel. I changed filters when I was suposed to. But I only got 80k miles out of my motor. I love the car to death so I'm rebuilding it a little better, but from searching this forum and the web it seems like its not uncommon for the motors to fail earilier than expected. I did do my fair share of fast and hard driving, but the car never saw real track time or anything. I can't say that I have anything bad to say about the Subaru, just disappointed in the motors longevity right now. I'd by another one.
 

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Your engine will last as long as you want it to, so long as you treat it right. Boxer engines have been in use for decades with an impecible record. BMW has used them for motorcycles since WWII and are notorious for going over 100k (which is a whole lot for a bike). Virtually every piston aircraft engine is a boxer 4 or 6 (and many of them are turbocharged). This has to do with cooling issues, but the configuration is obviously reliable. I shouldn't even need to mention Porsche. Do the maintenance, don't beat on it, and you will be fine.
 
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