Tuning software question for 2015 Launch
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This is a discussion on Tuning software question for 2015 Launch within the Tuning: Electronic Engine Management forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I am new to owning a Subaru. Had a chance to buy the new Launch STI so here I am! ...

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    Registered User Rhawley's Avatar
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    Tuning software question for 2015 Launch

    I am new to owning a Subaru. Had a chance to buy the new Launch STI so here I am! Currently I run only a stage 1 mods package with Perrin CBE with a Cobb V3 port. I will be doing more work soon that will best be handled by custom tuning. Unfortunately living in Scranton PA doea not place me in a good location.

    My questions are,
    1. What are the differences regarding the Cobb Pro Access tuner and the Race model? (The first is apparently available for authorized Cobb dealers. The Cobb access tuner Race software is available to anyone. )
    The price listed on the site for that said free?

    2. What is the difference between them as far as what can be accomplished, and is it worth getting? (I am a Surgeon by trade. I am not a computer wiz and i am not an amatuer mechanic nor a programer. )

    3. What is the learning curve for attempting custom tunes? ( I will be installing an aftermarket DP with HFCBE. 1000cc FI and new pump. Otherwise stock engine and turbo. May replace the intercooler. Intake is done and I have preloaded map. A/F 0 to -2.5 thru all RPM/boost 20.1. )

    4. Would removing my ECU and sending it out be worthwhile? (Since I already have V3 port that seems counterintuitive to me.).

    5. Is there any alternative for completing a quality custom tune without having the car physically hooked to a dyno? i.e send out ECU?

    6. And lastly, how would buying the access race softwear be advantagous without physical dyno. I have learned that readings are poor at best when using simple plug in and go dyno mapping. For example I read from 250 to 500 hp in 1st gear using my handheld.

    I have a great Porche mechanic that knows his way around a boxer engine. Would he be able to purchase what I need to do a good job. I am not looking for the best tune in the world. I want to reach a happy medium between performance and not throwing a rod or melting pistons. If so what kind of money are we talking about to get the bare bones equipment to get the job done?

    Sorry for all of the dumb questions. I am a rookie cookie. Thanks in advance. I look forward to any imput.

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    Registered User Rhawley's Avatar
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    FYI didnt realize it was such a long question. I am not a psycho. I just have voice texting. Lol

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    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    I am new to owning a Subaru. Had a chance to buy the new Launch STI so here I am! Currently I run only a stage 1 mods package with Perrin CBE with a Cobb V3 port. I will be doing more work soon that will best be handled by custom tuning. Unfortunately living in Scranton PA doea not place me in a good location.

    My questions are,
    1. What are the differences regarding the Cobb Pro Access tuner and the Race model? (The first is apparently available for authorized Cobb dealers. The Cobb access tuner Race software is available to anyone. )
    The price listed on the site for that said free?
    You can't get Pro. Pro is for licensed Accessport tuners. Pro allows a tuner to map any vehicle, lock maps, and interface with chassis dynamometers. Race is for an individual license: you can only map your car. The software is free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    2. What is the difference between them as far as what can be accomplished, and is it worth getting? (I am a Surgeon by trade. I am not a computer wiz and i am not an amatuer mechanic nor a programer. )
    Again, you cannot get Pro.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    3. What is the learning curve for attempting custom tunes? ( I will be installing an aftermarket DP with HFCBE. 1000cc FI and new pump. Otherwise stock engine and turbo. May replace the intercooler. Intake is done and I have preloaded map. A/F 0 to -2.5 thru all RPM/boost 20.1. )
    Quite steep. I would not recommend performing any adjustments until you greatly understand the engineering involved in automotive implementations. There are a lot of good resources to consider:
    1. Visit RomRaider forums
    2. Google "Bad Noodle's Subie Newbie Tuning guide"
    3. Read "Engine Management: Advanced Tuning" by Greg Banish
    4. Start reviewing whitepapers on K-Line and CAN control, review definitions off RomRaider forums
    5. Purchase and install a WBO2 and start getting your hands dirty bit by bit

    Just because you have the mental faculty doesn't make you qualified off the bat. It takes years to fully understand the methodology and practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    4. Would removing my ECU and sending it out be worthwhile? (Since I already have V3 port that seems counterintuitive to me.).
    No. This makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    5. Is there any alternative for completing a quality custom tune without having the car physically hooked to a dyno? i.e send out ECU?
    Yes, some tuners offer "Road Tunes" that are accomplished remotely. A widebandO2 sensor would be highly recommended

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    6. And lastly, how would buying the access race softwear be advantagous without physical dyno. I have learned that readings are poor at best when using simple plug in and go dyno mapping. For example I read from 250 to 500 hp in 1st gear using my handheld.
    "Road Tunes" or "Remote Tunes" can often produce a better result than a dyno tune since it is performed in real situations (i.e. real airflow, engine loading, etc.) and not simulated like a dyno tune. The downside to Road Tunes is 1. They tend to take longer and 2. Will require you to drive at speeds that will be deemed illegal in most jurisdictions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    I have a great Porche mechanic that knows his way around a boxer engine. Would he be able to purchase what I need to do a good job. I am not looking for the best tune in the world. I want to reach a happy medium between performance and not throwing a rod or melting pistons. If so what kind of money are we talking about to get the bare bones equipment to get the job done?
    Most pro-tunes cost around $400-600. Alternatively, you may wish to recover some cost by selling the AccessPort and purchasing a Tactrix OP2.0 provided that your local tuner will perform OS tunes.
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    Zax, thanks for all of your advice and the list of resources. I will be busy reading no doubt. I realize this is highly technical stuff. Especially with turbos. I will get into it slowly and try not to bite off more than I can chew. And I will certainly look into the Tactrix OP2. For the near future I will modify as above and send my ECU for a tune. I definitely want to get into doing things myself in time. Everyone here has been great with getting me on track. Thanks again!

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    One last thing. I was surprised by the road tune being good measure. How do I avoid or minimize the extreme fluctuations in hp readings. The V3 allows me to dyno per selecting a gear. I have only does 1st and 2nd thus far as you eluded to the illegality of checking 3-6. I had most readings at or about 300. But some as low as 250 and as high as 500 which i know is way off. Is it just not the ideal software or do I need to watch wheel spin and such. Thanks.

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    zax
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    You don't road tune in any gear but 3rd, which brings your speed to about 90mph. It only needs to be done in short bursts (pulls).

    Please review this:

    Dyno FAQ


    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    For the near future I will modify as above and send my ECU for a tune.
    I explained to you already that you don't send your ECU out for tuning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    One last thing. I was surprised by the road tune being good measure. How do I avoid or minimize the extreme fluctuations in hp readings. The V3 allows me to dyno per selecting a gear. I have only does 1st and 2nd thus far as you eluded to the illegality of checking 3-6. I had most readings at or about 300. But some as low as 250 and as high as 500 which i know is way off. Is it just not the ideal software or do I need to watch wheel spin and such. Thanks.
    Any device that uses the car's ECU data alone to calculate horsepower (Accessport/OP2.0/etc) is doing a purely calculated estimate based on 1/4 mile time, vehicle weight, temperature, and probably a couple other factors to attempt some measure of error compensation. This calculation will be making lots of assumptions, and the data stream is at the mercy of noisy sensors, so I wouldn't take any of the calculated horsepower estimates seriously.
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    HOWEVER

    Road tuning is performed statistically with data taken over multiple pulls. While the Virtual Dyno estimates are not ideal for "power bragging," it is an exceptionally useful tool in tuning. Because of the inability to apply constant load, the Virtual Dyno is considerably more difficult to determine MBT (maximum brake torque). So, if you need that extra tenth off your quarter mile time, it would be in the car's best interest to see a dyno at some point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley View Post
    One last thing. I was surprised by the road tune being good measure. How do I avoid or minimize the extreme fluctuations in hp readings. The V3 allows me to dyno per selecting a gear. I have only does 1st and 2nd thus far as you eluded to the illegality of checking 3-6. I had most readings at or about 300. But some as low as 250 and as high as 500 which i know is way off. Is it just not the ideal software or do I need to watch wheel spin and such. Thanks.

    Horse power readings are pointless, and are not used at any point in the tuning process (unless say, you hit your goal and decide you don't want to push it any harder). When tuning a car, you're trying to dial in things like fueling, timing, boost, etc. It will make the amount of power it makes.. and you can push some things to be more "aggressive" and make more power, like a leaner air to fuel ratio, higher boost, etc. But like I said, at no point do those made up hp calculations come into play.

    Tuning with hp would be like a heart surgeon deciding what he's going to do next by looking at the patient and saying "ohh, this guy looks pretty healthy, so I'm going to do this" while disregarding the real numbers coming from the sensors like O2 saturation, blood pressure, etc. Not the best analogy, I know.. I haven't had any coffee today.

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    No I get your point. Thanks. I may mess around with etuning to start. I just need to get a little more versed with data logging all the appropriate variables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhawley
    No I get your point. Thanks. I may mess around with etuning to start. I just need to get a little more versed with data logging all the appropriate variables.
    Whoever is doing the tune will give you specific instructions.
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    Scranton doesn't put you too far away from RT Tuning in PA.
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    Drive down to blairsville and visit TPG Tuning.

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    I will check them both out. Thanks!!!

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