protune vs opensource $$
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This is a discussion on protune vs opensource $$ within the Tuning: Electronic Engine Management forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I'm going to have an invidia catless dp and a grimmspeed up pipe. I'm leaving the intake and exhaust stock. ...

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    protune vs opensource $$

    I'm going to have an invidia catless dp and a grimmspeed up pipe. I'm leaving the intake and exhaust stock.

    My question is, is there a point in getting an access port if I'm going to end up paying for a pro tune anyway? Should I just go for the open source route at this point?

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    Registered User UEDan's Avatar
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    I would.
    While an AP can log and change maps without a laptop, the resolution is crap and are you really going to change maps that after getting a pro tune?
    (The answer is no)

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    This depends on your tuner's preferences.
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    Registered User McBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disqimation View Post
    I'm going to have an invidia catless dp and a grimmspeed up pipe. I'm leaving the intake and exhaust stock.

    My question is, is there a point in getting an access port if I'm going to end up paying for a pro tune anyway? Should I just go for the open source route at this point?
    Let's get things straight here. A Protune can be done on the Cobb AP and through open source tuning methods. With that said, talk to you tuner. What interface they prefer to work on is usually the best option. Most don't mind tuning it either way but from talking to multiple tuners most prefer using the Cobb AP because it is easier.

    If you are for sure getting a Protune, then from a money standpoint, not buying a Cobb AP would save you a bit. Logging would still be fairly simple. All you would need is a Tactrix 2.0 cable and a windows based laptop computer. Now, there would be some benefits to having the AP as well. The new AP 3 allows to you monitor up to 6 different engine parameters at one time (gauges in a sense). Not only that, but it is very simple to use and very simple to data log on. It's just an all around user friendly device. But obviously, the downside is that you have to dish out an additional $600.

    In the end the decision is up to you as to which route to go. Pick whichever one is the best option for YOU and not for what someone else tells you they think is the best thing for you. And again, the absolute best advice I can give you is to talk to your tuner. Since they are the ones that will be tuning your car, they are the most fitted to give you advice and suggestions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBill View Post
    Let's get things straight here. A Protune can be done on the Cobb AP and through open source tuning methods. With that said, talk to you tuner. What interface they prefer to work on is usually the best option. Most don't mind tuning it either way but from talking to multiple tuners most prefer using the Cobb AP because it is easier.

    If you are for sure getting a Protune, then from a money standpoint, not buying a Cobb AP would save you a bit. Logging would still be fairly simple. All you would need is a Tactrix 2.0 cable and a windows based laptop computer. Now, there would be some benefits to having the AP as well. The new AP 3 allows to you monitor up to 6 different engine parameters at one time (gauges in a sense). Not only that, but it is very simple to use and very simple to data log on. It's just an all around user friendly device. But obviously, the downside is that you have to dish out an additional $600.

    In the end the decision is up to you as to which route to go. Pick whichever one is the best option for YOU and not for what someone else tells you they think is the best thing for you. And again, the absolute best advice I can give you is to talk to your tuner. Since they are the ones that will be tuning your car, they are the most fitted to give you advice and suggestions.
    Dude you have to remember that many tuners will not tune OS anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Dude you have to remember that many tuners will not tune OS anymore.
    Really? This I didn't know. My tuner has no problem tuning on OS. But that is just my tuner. Interesting bit, thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBill View Post
    Really? This I didn't know. My tuner has no problem tuning on OS. But that is just my tuner. Interesting bit, thanks.
    I talked to a few shops about this as I'm still not too hot-to-trot on the AP. But from what I've found out, it has to do with the potential to brick the ECU when flashing opensource due to the CANBUS protocol used in the newer WRX's.

    My buddy who is a Porsche tech and familiar with all sorts of electronic witchcraft says it isn't too much of a risk so long as your battery voltage is good during the flash. However, he did tell me that he has bricked quite a few ECU's like a boss. That would also be while using the Porsche diagnostic computers that are made out of unobtanium; not his personal 6-yr old laptop running RomRaider etc...

    But, if I was a professional tuning shop I wouldn't want to take the liability and headache of potentially bricking a customer's ECU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vweater1369 View Post
    I talked to a few about this as I'm still not too hot-to-trot on the AP. But from what I've found out, it has to do with the potential to brick the ECU when flashing opensource due to the CANBUS protocol used in the newer WRX's.

    My buddy who is a Porsche tech and familiar with all sorts of electronic witchcraft says it isn't too much of a risk so long as your battery voltage is good during the flash. However, he did tell me that he has bricked quite a few ECU's like a boss. That would also be while using the Porsche diagnostic computers that are made out of unobtanium.

    But, if I was a professional tuning shop I wouldn't want to take the liability and headache of potentially bricking a customer's ECU.
    If that's the load they fed you, it's horsecrap. The AP has just as much potential to brick the ECU as a Tactrix.

    In reality, it's the fact that a tuner can lock the map on an AP thus protecting his/her intellectual property. An OpenSource map cannot be locked.
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    Thanks for the responses.
    I think that I'll go with the ap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disqimation View Post
    Thanks for the responses.
    I think that I'll go with the ap.
    Have you not read the responses? You should go with the recommended engine management by the tuner you wish to use!
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    If that's the load they fed you, it's horsecrap. The AP has just as much potential to brick the ECU as a Tactrix.

    In reality, it's the fact that a tuner can lock the map on an AP thus protecting his/her intellectual property. An OpenSource map cannot be locked.
    Interesting that the AP has just as much potential to brick it, and here I though I heard some of the first non-garbage answers about AP. I don't like the idea of spending $650+ on essentially a fancy data logger.

    Then what the hell is the deal with nobody with a dyno wanting to touch opensource? If I'm not too far out of the game, when I was all about 4G63's and what not, that was all you did. Opensource. Unless of course you had a DSM and then you used DSMLink.

    Is the whole "intellectual property" thing that much of a problem? Or is this just a push towards profits and locking the business down A-La A.P.R. style?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vweater1369 View Post
    Interesting that the AP has just as much potential to brick it, and here I though I heard some of the first non-garbage answers about AP. I don't like the idea of spending $650+ on essentially a fancy data logger.

    Then what the hell is the deal with nobody with a dyno wanting to touch opensource? If I'm not too far out of the game, when I was all about 4G63's and what not, that was all you did. Opensource. Unless of course you had a DSM and then you used DSMLink.

    Is the whole "intellectual property" thing that much of a problem? Or is this just a push towards profits and locking the business down A-La A.P.R. style?
    As far as I can tell it's purely the ability to lock down their intellectual property on an AP as opposed to not being able to on OP.

    Also, have you read much about the Cobb AP V3 at all? There are a lot of advantages to having an AP now with the new generation. It's surely a lot more than just "a fancy data logger"...

    Finally, as Zax said, you have the potential to "Brick" the ECU using any interface that re-flashes the computer but that doesn't mean it's going to happen every time... people get too worked up over these things. The fact of the matter is, when you are doing any sort of modification to your car that takes it beyond it's stock capabilities, you are taking that slight chance that something may go catastrophically wrong. No matter what anyone tells you, modding is ALWAYS a risk. Now, most people take that risk anyhow because, frankly, the odds that something does go catastrophically wrong are very small.
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    Well, I didn't find a tuner that would do open source. I guess its because I have a 2014 model. Also, I may still be able to get warranty work done with the ap, god forbid anything happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBill View Post
    Also, have you read much about the Cobb AP V3 at all? There are a lot of advantages to having an AP now with the new generation. It's surely a lot more than just "a fancy data logger"...
    I have only read as much as I have found on their website honestly. I haven't been able to find any other "features" so to speak other than what they have shown there. To be honest maybe I was expecting too much (I'm not knocking AP in this respect, maybe I'm a bit spoiled). But I had access to all of the features listed on Cobb's site and data points with the tuning software I had for my almost 20 year old DSM. For the same price as an AP I was able to buy DSMlink and an Eprom ECU. With this I had pretty much limitless access to what I could do; converting and getting your car at least idling on speed density was almost plug and play. I also toyed around with ECUflash which I found to have even more functionality once you knew what you were doing.


    I guess I should have explained what I meant by "fancy data logger." Meaning that through my casual internet searching I haven't found any extra features that an AP gives you (for the $$)that in my experiance tactrix+laptop doesn't. Other than you don't have to lug a lap top around, deal with getting ECUflash or RomRaider running, and the AP is more plug and play.


    /threadjack.
    Last edited by vweater1369; 04-21-2014 at 06:40 PM.

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