ANother stage 1 thread : several question for 2011 WRX
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This is a discussion on ANother stage 1 thread : several question for 2011 WRX within the Tuning: Electronic Engine Management forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Hi, I have read all I can do before posting. But all the different opinions are confusing. SO I just ...

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    ANother stage 1 thread : several question for 2011 WRX

    Hi,

    I have read all I can do before posting. But all the different opinions are confusing.
    SO I just bought a WRX 2011 limited with 50000kms and just I just plan to go stage 1.
    Actually I LOVED the car in stock form but from what I read I miss a big thing not to go stage 1.
    My main concern is reliability taking into account that I live in Quebec where temp can go below -30C (so over boost?). So my question are the following:
    - Is clear that on a WRx (not STI) , stage 1 is as much or more reliable than stock?
    - Is there a benefit for reliability to get a protune to control knock or other parameters.
    - I heard that on these car there is a lot of clogged cat issues which could be catastrophic with stage 1. Is it pertinent?
    - What will I lose in terms of drivability withe a stage 1?
    - Should I get another tune for winter?


    Thank you very much.

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    \_(ツ)_/ Rambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickson View Post
    Hi,

    I have read all I can do before posting. But all the different opinions are confusing.
    SO I just bought a WRX 2011 limited with 50000kms and just I just plan to go stage 1.
    Actually I LOVED the car in stock form but from what I read I miss a big thing not to go stage 1.
    My main concern is reliability taking into account that I live in Quebec where temp can go below -30C (so over boost?). So my question are the following:
    - Is clear that on a WRx (not STI) , stage 1 is as much or more reliable than stock?
    - Is there a benefit for reliability to get a protune to control knock or other parameters.
    - I heard that on these car there is a lot of clogged cat issues which could be catastrophic with stage 1. Is it pertinent?
    - What will I lose in terms of drivability withe a stage 1?
    - Should I get another tune for winter?


    Thank you very much.
    *Sigh* You're modifying the car beyond the manufacturer's specifications. Yes, it's just a firmware change, but it's a modification nonetheless. By doing modifications, you accept the liability that your actions may or many not dramatically reduce the car's lifespan. You either accept that, or you don't.

    That said, people have been using Stage 1 tunes for more than a decade now, so the concept is well-understood. Problems are pretty rare, but they can and do happen.

    Based on your questions, it sounds like you're satified with the car as is, and you're very concerned about reliability. Why not just enjoy the car as is, and not even risk it?
    Last edited by Rambo; 09-12-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
    *Sigh* You're modifying the car beyond the manufacturer's specifications. Yes, it's just a firmware change, but it's a modification nonetheless. By doing modifications, you accept the liability that your actions may or many not dramatically reduce the car's lifespan. You either accept that, or you don't.

    That said, people have been using Stage 1 tunes for more than a decade now, so the concept is well-understood. Problems are pretty rare, but they can and do happen.

    Based on your questions, it sounds like you're satified with the car as is, and you're very concerned about reliability. Why not just enjoy the car as is, then and not even risk it?
    Thanks for your answer. Actually I agree with the idea you pay to play.
    Just want a few answer about special points to finalize my decision.

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    I'm kind of in this same boat. I enjoy the way my Scoob gets it but if I can enhance power and efficiency with zero to minimal effects on longevity, I'm game.

    I've been reading plenty about this too but have yet to see any significant data or even anecdotal evidence to back up the stage 1 tune theory beyond many people just saying "stage 1 is better" and "the factory tune sucks." What are we looking at here? 5% HP gain? 1%? Smoother power curve? Broadened power band? Increased fuel efficiency? Reduced emissions? Less lug at very low RPM?

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    MAINEiac 11blackSTi's Avatar
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    With stage 1 you won't see dramatic power increases. It will smooth out the power band though (some respond better than others). You don't need the different tune for winter on just a stage 1. If you were dialed in super exact with a larger build, you might run into issues with dramatic climate changes, but the off the shelf stage 1 maps are fairly rich. The cat issues you refer to I believe are more on the earlier models (that had cats in the up-pipe, where they tended to break down, which cause issues as this was a pre-turbo cat). Your car does not have a cat in the up pipe. I hope this answers you questions.

    Also, protune will always be better than an off the shelf map as it is designed specifically for your car.
    Last edited by 11blackSTi; 09-12-2013 at 02:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks View Post
    I'm kind of in this same boat. I enjoy the way my Scoob gets it but if I can enhance power and efficiency with zero to minimal effects on longevity, I'm game.

    I've been reading plenty about this too but have yet to see any significant data or even anecdotal evidence to back up the stage 1 tune theory beyond many people just saying "stage 1 is better" and "the factory tune sucks." What are we looking at here? 5% HP gain? 1%? Smoother power curve? Broadened power band? Increased fuel efficiency? Reduced emissions? Less lug at very low RPM?
    Cobb pretty clearly spells out what Stage 1 is (with data even!). I'm not sure what else you're looking for. Whether or not you'll like it is entirely up to your personal driving style. While many aspects of a tune are objective, "driving feel" is something you can only really define for yourself.

    [PDF LINK] https://static.cobbtuning.com/cobbtu..._WRX_09-13.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks View Post
    I'm kind of in this same boat. I enjoy the way my Scoob gets it but if I can enhance power and efficiency with zero to minimal effects on longevity, I'm game.

    I've been reading plenty about this too but have yet to see any significant data or even anecdotal evidence to back up the stage 1 tune theory beyond many people just saying "stage 1 is better" and "the factory tune sucks." What are we looking at here? 5% HP gain? 1%? Smoother power curve? Broadened power band? Increased fuel efficiency? Reduced emissions? Less lug at very low RPM?
    Stage 1 is supposed to net anywhere from 10-20% hp/tq increase, depending on the tune. The power curve is definitely changed, and in my opinion for the better. Fuel efficiency? Not so sure about that. Of the two stage 1 tunes I've had, one definitely helped with low RPMs. Protune is always better, but unless stage 1 is your endgame, it is generally suggested to wait until later on to get one.

    Here's an anecdote for ya: Calvinball's Saga: In which he blabs about anything related to his car...with pics!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11blackSTi View Post
    With stage 1 you won't see dramatic power increases. It will smooth out the power band though (some respond better than others). You don't need the different tune for winter on just a stage 1. If you were dialed in super exact with a larger build, you might run into issues with dramatic climate changes, but the off the shelf stage 1 maps are fairly rich. The cat issues you refer to I believe are more on the earlier models (that had cats in the up-pipe, where they tended to break down, which cause issues as this was a pre-turbo cat). Your car does not have a cat in the up pipe. I hope this answers you questions.

    Also, protune will always be better than an off the shelf map as it is designed specifically for your car.
    Thank you very. Exactly the kind of answer I were looking for. I just got in touche with Eric (TorquedPerformance) and he will tune a map for me.

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    Honestly you don't lose much reliability til you go past stage 2... you seem awfully worried about reliability being a issue, with going to stage 1 you are doing a modification to your car. A relatively safe one at that anytime you do modify your car you take a risk obviously its a small risk to take for the benefits you'll receive. You are not going to lose anything as far as drivabilty goes you'll probably gain rather than lose and the car will have a smoother power band when boosting.

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    Thanks for the link to thank Calvinball. Looks like both tunes really smoothed out and broadened the torque curve despite the (as you said possibly invalid) higher peak torque from stock. And the newer HP curves look very nice too.
    The less of an increase in boost pressure, the better, for my liking. Interesting that you're showing better numbers with lower boost on the WTF tune. I'd be curious to see what's going on there.
    I'm super new to all this but am trying to drink in as much info as possible regarding EEM and am pretty certain I'll be buying myself a tractrix cable to start logging and monitoring data so that I can be more active in tuning my Scoob, when I get there.

    edit: Did not realize the post that you linked was so current, maybe this should be moved to your build thread?
    Last edited by Zataks; 09-13-2013 at 11:21 AM.

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks
    Interesting that you're showing better numbers with lower boost on the WTF tune. I'd be curious to see what's going on there.
    There's more than "Boost" in the equation of making power
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    That's exactly why I'd like to see what's going on with the different maps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks
    That's exactly why I'd like to see what's going on with the different maps.
    I've posted some basic information about the way the car is mapped.
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    Thanks for all your anser. I will try TP stage 1 map tomorrow. Is there somewhere explanations how to do a proper datalogging? Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickson
    Thanks for all your anser. I will try TP stage 1 map tomorrow. Is there somewhere explanations how to do a proper datalogging? Thanks.
    Eric has his own datalog instructions
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