Curious ... post your 09-13 dyno number with IDC%
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This is a discussion on Curious ... post your 09-13 dyno number with IDC% within the Tuning: Electronic Engine Management forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I'm just trying to get some ideas on how much hp these stock ones can handle. Thinking of later adding ...

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    Curious ... post your 09-13 dyno number with IDC%

    I'm just trying to get some ideas on how much hp these stock ones can handle. Thinking of later adding the tumbellers from GS and ELH's, and then aside from a CBE I will have most of the mods for a stock engine on stock turbo.
    2012 WRX: TurboXS DP, AEM CAI, TP stage 2 tune

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    Registered User WrxPower's Avatar
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    Well I don't have dyno numbers but I have asked Eric from TP about the injectors also. I've been on his stage3 map for a week now and have done and sent home some logs. I noticed my injectors were around 97-99% @ about 6500rpm's so I asked him about them. He told me not to worry the injectors can handle up to 110%. I know this is not dyno numbers you asked for but I asked him when I was on his stage 2 map about whp and he told me his stage 2 maps are +/- 300whp.

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    Registered User bbrock171's Avatar
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    I made 296whp and 320tq in my 2013 STI on a dynojet with a 1.01 correction factor. IDC got up to 105% or so, which is impossible obviously but that's what the log was reading.

    The STI injectors will handle a modest turbo upgrade but not much more. Best thing to do is ask your tuner what injectors to get for your planned mods.

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    Registered User bbrock171's Avatar
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    Sorry, just reread your post and wanted to add something: if you plan to leave the stock turbo and aren't tuning it for e85 don't bother doing injectors. Waste of money.

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    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    I would not be comfortable pushing injectors past 95%. Ideally you want your max IDC to be somewhere between 80 and 90%. When you go over 90% discrepancies in flow rate are magnified and one thing you do not want to fool with is lean condition at WOT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbrock171 View Post
    Sorry, just reread your post and wanted to add something: if you plan to leave the stock turbo and aren't tuning it for e85 don't bother doing injectors. Waste of money.

    Sent from right behind you!
    I'm not planning on adding a CBE, because it lacks any real power gain for the money. Like I said, I will do the GS tumbelers and the ELH's and that will be it. Then again, with gas going up in Md. because of our wonderful governer, I may sell the car and buy the new GTD Golf diesel... 60 mpg sounds pretty good to me with 280 tq. Don't know yet
    2012 WRX: TurboXS DP, AEM CAI, TP stage 2 tune

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    Registered User maus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbrock171 View Post
    Sorry, just reread your post and wanted to add something: if you plan to leave the stock turbo and aren't tuning it for e85 don't bother doing injectors. Waste of money.

    Sent from right behind you!
    Disagree

    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    I would not be comfortable pushing injectors past 95%. Ideally you want your max IDC to be somewhere between 80 and 90%. When you go over 90% discrepancies in flow rate are magnified and one thing you do not want to fool with is lean condition at WOT.
    Agree
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    Registered User bbrock171's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maus View Post
    Disagree


    Agree

    I know I don't speak for everyone, but since we're talking about 09-13s, and I've owned two of them now, both with very high IDCs, I can say it's never been an issue for me. Never had issues with my WRX while it was Stg2, and when I dyno'd the STI we had the wideband hooked up and the AFR read low to mid 11s flat and stable all the way to redline.

    Although it did drop all the way below 10:1 territory right at tip-in.

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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    So 100% IDC on the WRX isn't truly 100% IDC. True 100% IDC means that the injector is open 100% of the time and never closes. This is BAD because there isn't time for the coil to cool off between pulses, and it will also cause fuel pooling on the intake valves. Fuel pooling is bad because it means you have poorly atomized fuel being dumped into the cylinder.

    There are many posts on Rom Raider where people are pushing IDCs up to 120% (some are saying up to 130%!) and still seeing richer AFRs.

    One would be led to believe that 100% IDC is actually 100% of what you should be pushing the vehicle to (which - depending on source - is between 85% and 90% of actual IDC).
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    Registered User bbrock171's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    So 100% IDC on the WRX isn't truly 100% IDC. True 100% IDC means that the injector is open 100% of the time and never closes. This is BAD because there isn't time for the coil to cool off between pulses, and it will also cause fuel pooling on the intake valves. Fuel pooling is bad because it means you have poorly atomized fuel being dumped into the cylinder.

    There are many posts on Rom Raider where people are pushing IDCs up to 120% (some are saying up to 130%!) and still seeing richer AFRs.

    One would be led to believe that 100% IDC is actually 100% of what you should be pushing the vehicle to (which - depending on source - is between 85% and 90% of actual IDC).
    The guys at Mach V actually explained it to me in a very similar manner. The IDC you see in your log is calculated, not actual, and from what I gather it's a pretty conservative calculation, i.e. reads higher than reality.

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    Registered User bbrock171's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical4u View Post
    I'm not planning on adding a CBE, because it lacks any real power gain for the money. Like I said, I will do the GS tumbelers and the ELH's and that will be it. Then again, with gas going up in Md. because of our wonderful governer, I may sell the car and buy the new GTD Golf diesel... 60 mpg sounds pretty good to me with 280 tq. Don't know yet
    The VWs are torque monsters for sure, and not just the diesels either. My wife's Stg1 GTi is pushing 300ft/lbs. But being that it's FWD the first three gears are now useless at WOT.

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    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    With no fueling overhead all it takes is one failure in the boost control system, or even a change in environmental factors, and you're looking at a blown engine. If you're looking at making power, over kill in the fuel system in paramount to having a safe build.

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    Good news, everyone! xxxxxxxAnub1s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    With no fueling overhead all it takes is one failure in the boost control system, or even a change in environmental factors, and you're looking at a blown engine. If you're looking at making power, over kill in the fuel system in paramount to having a safe build.
    Agreed 100%. Even if the IDC calculations are conservative, pushing past 100% is just asking for problems. Those pushing upwards of 120% apparently don't mind large amounts of risk for little gain.
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    Registered User bbrock171's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    With no fueling overhead all it takes is one failure in the boost control system, or even a change in environmental factors, and you're looking at a blown engine. If you're looking at making power, over kill in the fuel system in paramount to having a safe build.
    I guess it's good I've got ID1000s for my modest 20G build. Talk about overkill...

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    With my build (basically a TP stage 3 with Perrin ELH) I'm running right around 95-96% at the highest boost/RPMs and WOT. Some logs I see a bit higher (never over 98% yet), some a bit lower, but in general that's what I'm running at with stock injectors and DW65c pump - running right at 10.9 AFR on the gauge.
    Last edited by TankerTruck; 05-20-2013 at 10:11 AM.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

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