Torqued performance vs Cobb accessport - Page 3
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This is a discussion on Torqued performance vs Cobb accessport within the Tuning: Electronic Engine Management forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; My first purchase for my '13 WRX was the Cobb AccessPort. Going immediately to Stage 1 at 1001 miles on ...

  1. #31
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    My first purchase for my '13 WRX was the Cobb AccessPort. Going immediately to Stage 1 at 1001 miles on the odometer. Great upfront investment to get immediate power returns for the money. Once I decided to go to Stage 2 I went with the Torqued Performance map and recommended car upgrades for it. Took a few months to get all the parts I wanted for it, EBCS, Larger TMIC, downpipe, exhaust, and intake before I purchased my second Stage 2 map from Eric at TP. Feel the car is running stronger then ever and enjoy the extra power. I do wonder if e-mail maps and on the road data logging and tweaking the map is really as good as I think it is.

    Decided to measure exactly how good my TP map is running. Going in for a ProTune (Dyno-Tune) on 7/22 where they will do a baseline of the current TP map. Ask that the ProTune be more torque favored over higher HP. I'm not racing my WRX on the track or interested in going 100+ mph on the street; that's what my motorcycles are for I want that push me back into my Sparco as hard as you can acceleration like a V8 does so well.

    Will post back to this thread my results for those considering if a TP map or ProTune is the best choice for their money spent. I'm really pulling for the TP map to be 90% as good as the ProTune mapping; if so then the TP map will be the better dollar-to-performance choice.
    Last edited by Delnari; 07-16-2013 at 03:36 PM.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delnari
    I do wonder if e-mail maps and on the road data logging and tweaking the map is really as good as I think it is.
    With e-mail tuning, it depends on what data is collected from the end-user and how it's adjusted into the mapping on the tuners side. I ask my customers to get part-throttle logs, in addition to WOT logs. WOT logs are done in both 3rd / 4th gear (4th / 5th gear for the 04-06 STIs) to make sure that things are still in check for the higher gearing. Again, without the proper data (e.g., WBO2 AFRs, various types of logs, etc.), the tuner can't adjust for everything. I much prefer to tune in-person, but have done a bunch of e-mail tunes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delnari
    Decided to measure exactly how good my TP map is running. Going in for a ProTune (Dyno-Tune) on 7/22 where they will do a baseline of the current TP map. Ask that the ProTune be more torque favored over higher HP. I'm not racing my WRX on the track or interested in going 100+ mph on the street; that's what my motorcycles are for I want that push me back into my Sparco as hard as you can acceleration like a V8 does so well.

    Will post back to this thread my results for those considering if a TP map or ProTune is the best choice for their money spent. I'm really pulling for the TP map to be 90% as good as the ProTune mapping; if so then the TP map will be the better dollar-to-performance choice.
    If you don't have a proper way to measure AFRs (read: WBO2), then you're doing the e-tuner a disservice with this type of test. A custom tune at a shop will be able to dial in the AFRs because they have the proper data. As for what I've seen in logs from TP maps in the past, Eric likes to run quite a bit of boost, which will go a long way towards keeping the car "torquey". But as I said before, without it being an apples/apples comparison (both have equivalent data), you can't really make a proper comparison.
    Last edited by EJ257; 07-16-2013 at 04:05 PM.
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  4. #33
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    Not looking to make a judgement about the quality between the two different methods. What I hoping to see is it better to spend $500 for a ProTune or drop $75+ on a tune via data logging. Knowing the ProTune is going to be far more accurate it will give the best possible numbers. If a budget mod, as I did, can get a high enough percent of what a tuner can deliver from the dyno then that is a good way to save some coin and be happy with the result. For the guy/gal who is trying to decide between e-mail tune or Protune.

    More curious then anything else to see how they compare; albeit not apples to apples.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delnari
    Not looking to make a judgement about the quality between the two different methods. What I hoping to see is it better to spend $500 for a ProTune or drop $75+ on a tune via data logging. Knowing the ProTune is going to be far more accurate it will give the best possible numbers. If a budget mod, as I did, can get a high enough percent of what a tuner can deliver from the dyno then that is a good way to save some coin and be happy with the result. For the guy/gal who is trying to decide between e-mail tune or Protune.

    More curious then anything else to see how they compare; albeit not apples to apples.
    I can tell you, from someone that does e-tuning, that there is nothing that compares to an in-person tune with proper data (especially if you don't have WBO2 data to send to the e-tuner). Even if you have proper data, there is something to be said for the feel of the car that you get when doing an in-person tune vs e-mail.

    Also, depending on the custom tune, you may not get the proper experience as well. If the tuner doesn't do a road checkup/cleanup after the dyno tune, they're doing you a disservice, and I would consider the tune incomplete.

    I'm just saying that it will likely not be a proper comparison to judge by the e-tune vs in-person tune. Go ahead and post your results/opinions, but they won't really mean all that much even if the data provided to each tuner is comparable. A tune can feel great, but it can be rubbish.
    Last edited by EJ257; 07-16-2013 at 07:46 PM.
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    Thanks for all the input. I don't think a protune is worthwhile for stage 1 because of the cost for tuning just a stock ride. The TP maps aren't really expensive anyway and you can always switch back so I'm sure it's worth getting.

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    Just finished with my ProTune from Mach V today. Please find the Dynojet run sheet attached. The red lines is the Torqued Performance tune and the blue lines are from Mach V. Switching to the Protune gave me 6% higher peak horsepower and 7% higher peak torque. The biggest benefit was tuning of the Air/Fuel Ratio which I suspected would be best feature of the ProTune. Should net better gas mileage and smoother running with the flat line A/F ratio. Will do a data log run and post up compare to that of the TP map and see what that looks like a bit later.


  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delnari
    Just finished with my ProTune from Mach V today. Please find the Dynojet run sheet attached. The red lines is the Torqued Performance tune and the blue lines are from Mach V. Switching to the Protune gave me 6% higher peak horsepower and 7% higher peak torque. The biggest benefit was tuning of the Air/Fuel Ratio which I suspected would be best feature of the ProTune. Should net better gas mileage and smoother running with the flat line A/F ratio. Will do a data log run and post up compare to that of the TP map and see what that looks like a bit later.
    Can Dan email you a graph including boost plots, too? Since AFR data wasn't included in your remote tune, I'd be curious to see the difference between Boost / Ignition Timing between the two runs. Obviously, Eric was at a disadvantage when tuning the car, so you can't fault him too much for that. As I said before, a tune is only as good as the data the end-user is able to provide.

    Also, if you notice, there's much more to it than "peak" values. You hit peak torque in the MV tune @ 3250, where you don't hit peak torque until 4450 in the TP tune (the difference @ 3250 is much more pronounced). HP is about the same, so that isn't as telling. That said, the difference is due to the way a Dynojet loads the car vs the road, which is why I hope there was a road tune checkup/cleanup done after you were off the dyno.
    Last edited by EJ257; 07-22-2013 at 03:36 PM.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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  9. #38
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    I did have Dan tell me he did a road smoothing tune so it would be good at higher speed. He tuned exactly the way I really wanted it. I asked for the low end instant torque and he was able to move the torque down in the RPM range. Really like how it pulls harder earlier now and did see a boost peak hit at 20 PSI. Really need to do a 3rd gear data log run and put the results up against the TP data log and see what that tells. Dan mention if was running real rich and he could smell the residual gas when doing the baseline. It was below 10 but I didn't ask what the exact numbers were for the baseline. Guess it didn't matter much to him since he wanted to get it back to correct value.

    For $75-$100 the TP map is pretty darn good! I want to thank Eric for giving me a cheap alternative for an immediate power boost right away. If it wasn't for the TP map I wouldn't have appreciated how much power the new downpipe and exhaust gives a stock WRX. Getting the protune was just the next logical step for me and the car.

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