Tweak stage 2
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

This is a discussion on Tweak stage 2 within the Tuning: Electronic Engine Management forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I am currently running an 06' WRX with a stage 2 ots map. Does anyone know how I can tweak ...

  1. #1
    Registered User Dirty Bucket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Augusta, Maine
    Posts
    102

    Tweak stage 2

    I am currently running an 06' WRX with a stage 2 ots map. Does anyone know how I can tweak it so the boost doesn't drop to 10psi around redline? I haven't messed around with AccessTUNER Race much, but I would like to learn. I have found out how to change some things, but I done really know what I'm doing. If anyone has any advice as to properly tune it, I would appreciate it.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Registered User MainFrame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    7,590
    I Support ClubWRX
    Have the car professionally tuned. A quality TMIC, 3-port EBCS (or better yet, hybrid boost control), and EWG would all help out.

  4. #3
    Registered User Dirty Bucket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Augusta, Maine
    Posts
    102
    I have an STi TMIC and a vf39 waiting to be put on, I tried today but I couldn't get my old turbo of. I was just thinking of something to do in the mean time.

  5. #4
    Registered User Yamahar6311's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    101

    Tweak stage 2

    You can always try the other STG 2 maps. I'm just learning the access tuner myself.

  6. #5
    zax
    zax is online now
    \_(ツ)_/ zax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Neverland Ranch, Maryland
    Posts
    11,803
    I Support ClubWRX I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Bucket View Post
    Does anyone know how I can tweak it so the boost doesn't drop to 10psi around redline?
    You need to learn about how turbochargers work and to read compressor maps. The map tapers the boost to 10 PSI at redline to stay within the efficiency range of the turbo. The TD04-13T is a small turbo for the 2.5L motor. If you increase the boost to, say, 12 PSI at redline, the compressor will spend more energy heating the intake charge than compressing it into useful air for the cylinders. As such, the car will make less power than with the 10 PSI tune. This is a common misconception among those who do not understand turbochargers: more boost does NOT mean more power! You need to tune the boost to remain within the optimal efficiency range of the turbo -- optimizing volumetric efficiency with the amount of air flowed by the turbo compressor. A turbo system is a closed loop feedback loop!

    I'd recommend reading the Tuning 101 wiki on NASIOC. Until you have finished, I'd leave the tuning to the professionals.
    2015 CWP WRX STi on order ... But how did I get roped back into an EJ motor?!
    Zax' Shaggin' Wagon Build Thread Now tuned for 99% pure Unicorn Jizz!

    Zach | Moderator -- Mid-Atlantic States, Tech & Modifying & General Repairs
    Rollin' with the Bugeye Mafia #302 | N.E.R.D. Subject Zero | Blobeye Synd. #Tree-Fiddy
    Facebook me here

    Your Mid-A local board: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/mid-atlantic-states/

  7. #6
    Registered User Yamahar6311's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    101

    Tweak stage 2

    I agree
    Last edited by Yamahar6311; 11-03-2012 at 04:12 PM.

  8. #7
    Registered User Alexmartynyuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    You need to learn about how turbochargers work and to read compressor maps. The map tapers the boost to 10 PSI at redline to stay within the efficiency range of the turbo. The TD04-13T is a small turbo for the 2.5L motor. If you increase the boost to, say, 12 PSI at redline, the compressor will spend more energy heating the intake charge than compressing it into useful air for the cylinders. As such, the car will make less power than with the 10 PSI tune. This is a common misconception among those who do not understand turbochargers: more boost does NOT mean more power! You need to tune the boost to remain within the optimal efficiency range of the turbo -- optimizing volumetric efficiency with the amount of air flowed by the turbo compressor. A turbo system is a closed loop feedback loop!

    I'd recommend reading the Tuning 101 wiki on NASIOC. Until you have finished, I'd leave the tuning to the professionals.
    Mostly agree, but having an efficient intercooler helps to cool down the air when pushing the turbo past its efficiency range. But pushing a turbo like that will eventually cause it to fail fairly quickly.

  9. #8
    Registered User MainFrame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    7,590
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexmartynyuk View Post
    Mostly agree, but having an efficient intercooler helps to cool down the air when pushing the turbo past its efficiency range. But pushing a turbo like that will eventually cause it to fail fairly quickly.


    You can generally run a little more boost safely with a better intercooler, but that has no effect on the choke point of the compressor. If you're hitting the choke line on the compressor it doesn't matter how good your intercooler is.

  10. #9
    zax
    zax is online now
    \_(ツ)_/ zax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Neverland Ranch, Maryland
    Posts
    11,803
    I Support ClubWRX I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexmartynyuk View Post
    Mostly agree, but having an efficient intercooler helps to cool down the air when pushing the turbo past its efficiency range. But pushing a turbo like that will eventually cause it to fail fairly quickly.
    No. A more efficient intercooler will reduce the intake charge so you can make more power by added timing. This has NOTHING to do with the compressor efficiency.
    2015 CWP WRX STi on order ... But how did I get roped back into an EJ motor?!
    Zax' Shaggin' Wagon Build Thread Now tuned for 99% pure Unicorn Jizz!

    Zach | Moderator -- Mid-Atlantic States, Tech & Modifying & General Repairs
    Rollin' with the Bugeye Mafia #302 | N.E.R.D. Subject Zero | Blobeye Synd. #Tree-Fiddy
    Facebook me here

    Your Mid-A local board: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/mid-atlantic-states/

  11. #10
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Philly Area
    Posts
    5,910
    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    No. A more efficient intercooler will reduce the intake charge so you can make more power by added timing. This has NOTHING to do with the compressor efficiency.
    Do we need to have you change your title to "Dope Traction/Turbo Moderator?"
    - Will
    First Mods: What to do and what not to do
    Current Car: 2014 Golf TDI
    Previous Cars:2012 WRB WRX Hatch, 2004 RSX-S, 1998 Grand Prix GTP
    "Isn't it amazing how smart you feel when you just aren't being stupid?"

  12. #11
    Registered User Ruh Roh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Pottstown PA
    Posts
    3,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post
    Do we need to have you change your title to "Dope Traction/Turbo Moderator?"
    trollolol. i always love reading these posts. theres so many big words, makes me feel smart as i read them.

  13. #12
    Registered User Alexmartynyuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    No. A more efficient intercooler will reduce the intake charge so you can make more power by added timing. This has NOTHING to do with the compressor efficiency.
    make more power not only because of being able to run more timing but because there is slightly more air, trust me I know, i'm running my td04 @ 21psi and getting a more efficient intercooler helps, I wasn't even able to add much more timing after getting the tmic but in similar conditions the car put down a decent amount more power than it did with the stocker at the same boost curve and afr. Pushing a turbo into its less efficient area will make it flow a little more but less efficiently which means more flow more power as long as you are able to cool the air charge down.

  14. #13
    zax
    zax is online now
    \_(ツ)_/ zax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Neverland Ranch, Maryland
    Posts
    11,803
    I Support ClubWRX I Support ClubWRX

    Re: Tweak stage 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexmartynyuk View Post
    make more power not only because of being able to run more timing but because there is slightly more air, trust me I know, i'm running my td04 @ 21psi and getting a more efficient intercooler helps, I wasn't even able to add much more timing after getting the tmic but in similar conditions the car put down a decent amount more power than it did with the stocker at the same boost curve and afr. Pushing a turbo into its less efficient area will make it flow a little more but less efficiently which means more flow more power as long as you are able to cool the air charge down.
    This still has nothing to do with compressor efficiency! But yes you're right, running at 100% VE (as if you even could) would not necessarily provide you optimum power. BTW the reason you're able to run more boost with your new TMIC has more to do with the lower pressure drop of a bar and plate intercooler than the reduction in charge temp.

    Beamed at your face at approx. 186,000 miles per second via DROID BIONIC
    Last edited by zax; 11-09-2012 at 03:17 PM.
    2015 CWP WRX STi on order ... But how did I get roped back into an EJ motor?!
    Zax' Shaggin' Wagon Build Thread Now tuned for 99% pure Unicorn Jizz!

    Zach | Moderator -- Mid-Atlantic States, Tech & Modifying & General Repairs
    Rollin' with the Bugeye Mafia #302 | N.E.R.D. Subject Zero | Blobeye Synd. #Tree-Fiddy
    Facebook me here

    Your Mid-A local board: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/mid-atlantic-states/

  15. #14
    Registered User MainFrame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    7,590
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexmartynyuk View Post
    make more power not only because of being able to run more timing but because there is slightly more air, trust me I know, i'm running my td04 @ 21psi and getting a more efficient intercooler helps, I wasn't even able to add much more timing after getting the tmic but in similar conditions the car put down a decent amount more power than it did with the stocker at the same boost curve and afr. Pushing a turbo into its less efficient area will make it flow a little more but less efficiently which means more flow more power as long as you are able to cool the air charge down.


    At higher boost pressures the IC can't cool the air that much anyways. They tested the difference between the hotside endtank to the cold side end tank on the Mexico STi here and it was only 10-15 degrees.. and that car has a massive FMIC with a 5" core. Running the turbo out of it's efficiency range is going to net less power, no matter how good your IC is.

  16. #15
    Registered User Alexmartynyuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    This still has nothing to do with compressor efficiency! But yes you're right, running at 100% VE (as if you even could) would not necessarily provide you optimum power. BTW the reason you're able to run more boost with your new TMIC has more to do with the lower pressure drop of a bar and plate intercooler than the reduction in charge temp.

    Beamed at your face at approx. 186,000 miles per second via DROID BIONIC
    Lol, why doesn't this have anything to do with compressor map efficiency, aren't we talking about running a turbo running in a different efficiency range after less pressure drop after upgrading the intercooler? I ran the same boost before I switched to a redicilously large tmic. Anyway to the op, if you got a vf just install that and don't try to tune the car yourself if you don't know what you are doing. A td04 will not flow much more than 10psi at redline even if you ramp up wgdc to try and get it to, it cant flow enough air to cause pressure higher than that at high rpm. Changing boost will require remapping other parameters like timing and afr.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •