WTF Tuning Threads
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

This is a discussion on WTF Tuning Threads within the Tuning: Electronic Engine Management forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; General Disclaimer to Start Off You shouldn't blow your car up doing this. Don't make map changes unless you know ...

  1. #1
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    4,194
    I Support ClubWRX

    WTF Tuning Threads

    General Disclaimer to Start Off
    You shouldn't blow your car up doing this. Don't make map changes unless you know what you are doing. If you do, don't blame me. You typed the number in. You flashed it to the car. That being said, I've never heard of anybody doing damage by logging data. Bottom line, as a blanket statement, I'm not responsible for your car. Just putting it out there.


    Introduction
    This is the first entry in a string of threads that I plan to write. I have been road tuning my own car now for over a year now (with help from others), have learned a good bit along the way, and wish to pass some useful knowledge on to others. I can’t supply a “conclusive tuning guide” through forum posts – nor am I qualified to do so.

    I’d recommend picking up the following books to get a head start if you want:
    Designing and Tuning High-Performance Fuel Injection Systems by Greg Banish. Short book. Great initial overview.
    Turbo: Real-World High-Performance Turbocharger Systems by Jay K. Miller. This book goes in depth on JUST turbochargers. Given that most other books are general tuning books, this is a nice supplement. Lots of pictures and a surprisingly interesting read
    Engine Management: Advanced Tuning by Greg Banish. Short read, but a bit more in depth than the earlier Banish book. Good read though.
    Forced Induction Performance Tuning A Practical Guide to Supercharging and Turbocharging by A. Graham Bell. This book is not for the timid. It’s long, somewhat boring, and old. That said, I learned most of the fine details that I know from this book. If you are serious about it, this will take you back to the “classics” of tuning – an important aspect commonly overlooked on forums I feel. You’ll learn a ton though if you can bite the bullet and make it through.
    Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems by Corky Bell. I haven't read this one yet, so I can't offer an opinion on it. It did receive good ratings on amazon, which is what I base my book choices off of.
    Performance Fuel Injection Systems: How to Design, Build, Modify, and Tune EFI and ECU Systems by Matt Cramer & Jerry Hoffmann. I just finished this book. It was a good read, but focuses more on using standalone ECU's or retrofitting an older carb'd car with an EFI system. You'll go down into the fine details - most of which is magically done for us guys using the stock ECU. Good book, but I wouldn't put it as a priority.

    There are some good links that Matt has posted in Part 1. They contain some great information. I am only posting books above due to the ease of understanding the material, the assurance that they are written by a credible person, and the logical order the material is presented. That does not mean that an internet thread is bad, by any means. I just wanted to use this opportunity to give credit to the authors above, as well as provide a nice concrete starting point.

    I am writing these entries assuming that you have not read those books. I know not everybody has enough time to read all of the above. My posts will focus on newer 32-bit ECUs with open source ECU definitions/parameters. I can offer some suggestions for the older ones on request. I will also assume you have some version of excel that isn’t from the Stone Age.

    Installments:
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - ClubWRX WTF Tuned Vehicles
    Last edited by EJ257; 08-17-2013 at 04:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Late Devonian
    Posts
    13,226
    I Support ClubWRX
    Stuck - you want it open or closed?
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
    "The stitch is lost unless the thread is knotted." - Italian proverb

  4. #3
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On a stream bank somewhere
    Posts
    19,768
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist
    Stuck - you want it open or closed?
    I'd leave it open, for now. I think there are going to be more in the installment, and in case Brandon wants to edit it, he can. We can clean up random posts later.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

    UNYSOC

  5. #4
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    4,194
    I Support ClubWRX
    Yup. I'll continue to edit the first post. In the mean time, might as well leave it open for any commentary or questions =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

  6. #5
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Late Devonian
    Posts
    13,226
    I Support ClubWRX
    Yeah, that sounds good. We can always open it for him to edit by PM though....

    Folks should put their inquiries in the appropriate section after following the links.
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
    "The stitch is lost unless the thread is knotted." - Italian proverb

  7. #6
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    4,194
    I Support ClubWRX
    Whatever works for you guys. I'm open to whatever, especially for this page.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

  8. #7
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Philly Area
    Posts
    5,970
    I don't have an inquiry, and hopefully this isn't just pointless filler post, but I just wanted to express my gratitude to Brandon publically for taking the time to put together these write-ups for the community here. ClubWRX's version of Unabomber is just like everything else on this site...better!
    - Will
    First Mods: What to do and what not to do
    Current Car: 2014 Golf TDI
    Previous Cars:2012 WRB WRX Hatch, 2004 RSX-S, 1998 Grand Prix GTP
    "Isn't it amazing how smart you feel when you just aren't being stupid?"

  9. #8
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    4,194
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post
    ClubWRX's version of Unabomber is just like everything else on this site...better!
    I learned my first subaru stuff from that guy. Didn't know that 90% of those components existed on a car until then.

    I wouldn't say better by a long shot, but it's at least something to give people to think about =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

  10. #9
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Late Devonian
    Posts
    13,226
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
    Whatever works for you guys. I'm open to whatever, especially for this page.
    It is 100% your call IMO. If stuff gets really on topic for one of the sections, we can always move the posts.
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
    "The stitch is lost unless the thread is knotted." - Italian proverb

  11. #10
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    4,194
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    It is 100% your call IMO. If stuff gets really on topic for one of the sections, we can always move the posts.
    Okay. Lets leave it open. If anybody has any topic requests or whatnot they can put them here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

  12. #11
    Registered User xFalleNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Voorhees, NJ
    Posts
    4,032
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post
    I don't have an inquiry, and hopefully this isn't just pointless filler post, but I just wanted to express my gratitude to Brandon publically for taking the time to put together these write-ups for the community here.
    big +1! Thanks for taking the time to write all this out Brandon!
    --Anthony 2011 DGM WRX stg2+sf intake WTFtuned \_(ツ)_/

    Official Subie owner as of 01/10/11
    Stink Eye Mob #87

    Bye bye Bimmer
    Hellooo '11 REX

  13. #12
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    4,194
    I Support ClubWRX

    WTF Tuning Part 3: EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

    For this one, I wanted to cover some practical stuff to help everybody out. I also thought I would add in some stuff concerning the DBW tables catered towards the (confusing) 08+ ROMs. Since the boost control tables heavily deal with the DBW tables, it is important to understand them.


    Part 1: Getting EcuFlash with the latest definitions


    1.) Get EcuFlash: They recently have made some major changes with EcuFlash. Up until now, I was running a shady version off of an Evo forum somewhere. Luckily all of the updates have been incorporated into a new release that is on the Tactrix site. Use it. The updates are fantastic for you 08+ guys. Just get it and run the install as normal. Open it and make sure all is well.

    2.) Update your OP2.0 firmware: Plug in your OP2.0 to your laptop. Go to Help -> Licensing... Add your serial number off of your OP2.0 and it should update your firmware for you. This will help out a lot. Combined with a patch for the newer ECUs, it will enable a lot of standalone logging perks. Mainly, up to 60 parameters and up to 40Hz communication. It also fixes many of the bugs that would occur with logging the LC-1 or AEM UEGO.

    3.) Patch your ROM with the CANbus patch: There should be an option at the bottom of the list for a CANbus patch. For some reason I am not seeing it with the experimental definitions - will have to check into that. However, you should check that before your next flash. That will allow the OP2.0 to read RAM parameters using the CAN communications as opposed to the slower K-Line.

    4.) Play Around: Look through your map and get a feel for the various tables. Go to settings, Metadata -> Expand Categories and uncheck "expand all". Set user level to developer (don't blame me if you blow your car up). Change the color scheme if you feel like it.

    5.) Editing Tips: Most importantly, always edit your tables with the graph displayed (when a table is open, select view -> graph) so you gain a visual representation of what you are doing. Use hot keys to change values as well.
    Last edited by Heide264; 01-02-2013 at 01:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

  14. #13
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    4,194
    I Support ClubWRX
    Part 2: 08+ Drive By Wire


    Disclaimer: This write up is a bit more advanced in concept than my others. It took me a while to grasp this system, and I am still not comfortable making changes. Throttle angle is touchy in it's nature (especially at low angles), and it can have dramatic effect on the feeling of the car - for better or worse.

    Before 2008, even though Subaru had a DBW system, the car tune itself did not directly depend on the tables quite as much as it does now (before that, boost related tables went off of throttle or load). As it stands, in 08+, the DBW system has a direct input to the following three important tables:
    • Throttle Control (duh)
    • Target Boost
    • Min/Max Wastegate Control



    The DBW system uses three main tables. In the STi, it will use 2 additional requested torque tables due to the "revolutionary" SI Drive system.
    • Requested Torque Base (RPM)
    • Requested Torque (Accelerator Pedal)
    • Target Throttle Plate Position (Requested Torque Ratio)


    It's important to understand the impact of each table first. Otherwise, you can't piece them together and work with the system as a whole.


    Requested Torque (Accelerator Pedal):


    This table is the easiest place to start conceptually. Requested torque allows the ECU to determine how much torque you WANT... and it can decide how to get you that torque (in concept). The nice part of this is that you can have RPM dependent throttle response. The crappy part is that it is a PITA to tune in my opinion. As expected, this is a 3d table that takes into account your current RPM and your throttle position.. and outputs a "requested torque" value.

    The requested torque value is important. The value will be used in two main areas:
    1.)Throttle angle: This value will be compared to another value (requested torque base table) and the ECU will determine what to do with your throttle angle (target throttle plate position tables)
    2.)Boost Control: This value is used directly (NO comparison to the base table) to determine your wastegate duty cycle (both initial & max) as well as your target boost table.

    In a nutshell, THIS TABLE CONTROLS BOTH YOUR THROTTLE OPENING AND YOUR BOOST SETTINGS. If you change this table, you will impact both boost control AND throttle control. Be careful! Small changes go a long ways here.


    Requested Torque Base (RPM):


    This guy is strictly throttle related. The "Help" option from EcuFlash definitions does a good job of describing it:
    The value determined by the 'Requested Torque (Accelerator Pedal)' table is divided by this table's value to determine the 'Requested Torque Accelerator Pedal to Requested Torque Base RPM' ratio. This ratio makes up the x-axis of the 'Target Throttle Plate Position (Requested Torque Ratio)' table.
    A few relations to think about with this table... as your requested torque base "grows" (around 2.5k RPM in the stock STi 11 example), the throttle "sensitivity" goes DOWN. You are dividing it/comparing it to a higher value. I think of this table as a throttle sensitivity table.

    You must always consider the range of requested torque (acc pedal) values into account when you modify this table. If your 800 RPM row spans from 0.0 to 21.5... You probably don't want a requested torque base of 500. More annoyingly, if your requested torque ranges from 0 to 75, you probably don't want a requested torque of 50... otherwise it will be too touchy pending on your target throttle plate position.

    This table is more important for STi's with the SI drive. In a WRX, changes in this table can be "ironed out" with the target throttle plate table. In an STi, there are 3 requested torque (acc pedal) tables, but only one Requested Torque Base table (and one set of throttle plate position tables). Many people make this table a straight uphill linear line to allow a more linear throttle control. I will show you my approach a bit later.


    Target Throttle Plate Position (Cruise/Non-Cruise/Max) (Requested Torque Ratio):


    This guy is the final determinant of your throttle position. He will take the comparison (ratio) of your requested torque input (your pedal & RPM), your requested torque base (sensitivity, per say), and actually tell the motor on your throttle to adjust the angle. Be careful here... the throttle is touchy.

    Mechanically speaking, the throttle is not a "linear" device. What I am inferring is that the difference from 0% to 1% is NOT the same as 1% to 2%... or 99% to 100%. It is exponential (or logarithmic, I forget). Either way, be warned that very small angles produce a larger air flow than you would expect. The difference from 0 to 15% is not much different than 60% to 100%, despite what the numbers hint at. That is why the graph is shaped as it is..

    I don't like to touch this table other than to smooth out the "ripples" in it. I don't need to, and it hurts my brain to add another degree of freedom to the DBW system. I just need to work with it and know it's ball park numbers. I can change the scaling on the top if required.


    Okay. Moving on to a new throttle mapping which I am making as I type.
    Last edited by Heide264; 01-02-2013 at 01:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

  15. #14
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    4,194
    I Support ClubWRX
    Part 3 - My new DBW map (Work in Progress)


    I've been unhappy with my DBW tables for a while now. I have a few goals in mind for my new ones:
    • Aim for a linear "feel" at all times, whether the car is changing throttle position or boost pressure
    • To hit 100% throttle BEFORE waste gate spring pressure (avoid part throttle / full boost issues)
    • Leave 30% pedal play after 100% throttle to allow boost control tables to work their magic
    • Allow my SI Drive setting to change my maximum boost settings
    • Make tweaks as to make gear engagement a bit smoother and more predictable


    My plan of attack is to first drastically change the requested torque base table, simplify down the requested torque tables (make them a bit more linear across the RPM range so I can work with them), then scale the requested torque tables as needed to allow proper boost control.

    EDIT: 1st revision is attached. Going to flash it and try it later tonight most likely. I gotta get EcuFlash updated on my laptop, however. Pretty drastic change, so we will see. Kudos to Williarty on NASIOC for some guidance out of an older thread. Will have to redo my boost control - mainly the wgdc. Not too hard at least.

    Some numbers are hard to see, my apologies. As it stands, 75% pedal is equivalent to 100% throttle. Requested torque base is a straight 100 across the board. Target throttle position is linear from 0-100. I am targeting wastegate spring pressure (14psi in my EWG) at 75% pedal (or 100 Req. Torque) and going to aim for 16psi in sport mode (150 R.T. max) and 18psi in sport sharp (200 R.T. max). I'll step up S# most likely after I get my boost control dialed in again.

    Last edited by Heide264; 01-10-2013 at 01:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

  16. #15
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    4,194
    I Support ClubWRX
    Update for the map! Finally got around to trying some pulls.

    The new throttle map feels AMAZING. One of the best tweaks I've done to my car yet. It changed the feel of the car completely (for the better, of course).

    That being said, I zero'ed all my wgdc tables and just left my ECU to do the correction on it's own. I made the mistake of taking out my "anti-windup" fix, which is back in this rev. See below for some results of a pull that is targeting 16psi, and the resulting boost control tables. I also did a slight MAF scaling, although it was pretty close. Considering I haven't changed this and I don't use closed loop fueling, holding within around .25 afr is pretty good since I haven't done a MAF scaling this season.

    Fueling (target & actual):


    Boost (target & actual):


    WGDC (and corrections) - Note the nasty wind up:


    Resulting tables (with wind up correction):



    I post these tables up so you guys can kinda follow along if you choose. Keep in mind, especially my turbo dynamics tables, will be quite different than yours most likely. I do not have a catalyst in my down pipe, I have an EWG, and an EL manifold (your welcome for the terminology, zach)

    Now that I know my fueling is okay and I am not detonating, I can start to do a pull on each SI drive setting (I/S/S#) to get my boost control dialed in across the board quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself. We strongly suggest that you stay away from using aol, yahoo, msn, and hotmail accounts. Sometimes the mail server blocks the emails from our server. As a result you will not receive any notifications including the confirmation email.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •