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This is a discussion on Going Stage 1 Possibly Stage 2 within the Tuning: Electronic Engine Management forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; At one time I was set up for stage 2 with the stock catback, made 220whp in airboy @ 19psi. ...

  1. #16
    Registered User Alexmartynyuk's Avatar
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    At one time I was set up for stage 2 with the stock catback, made 220whp in airboy @ 19psi. I then got a 3in catback and retuned it and was at 240whp in airboy at 19psi. I don't know how much of a difference it will make between a 2.5in catback and a 3in. Im sure it will be very little if you are going to use the cobb ots map.

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  3. #17
    Registered User WRidesX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    You can get a custom reflash with your AP; if the shop tunes OpenECU, you can go that route, too.

    A new TMIC would replace your OE unit with a more efficient unit.
    Does the STI unit perform better than the OE unit? If so, I may go that route.
    '02 WRX Bugeye; Midnight Blue / Black Pearl

  4. #18
    Registered User WRidesX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexmartynyuk View Post
    At one time I was set up for stage 2 with the stock catback, made 220whp in airboy @ 19psi. I then got a 3in catback and retuned it and was at 240whp in airboy at 19psi. I don't know how much of a difference it will make between a 2.5in catback and a 3in. Im sure it will be very little if you are going to use the cobb ots map.
    Good to know, looks like I'll be sticking with the 2.5" after all.
    '02 WRX Bugeye; Midnight Blue / Black Pearl

  5. #19
    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRidesX View Post
    Does the STI unit perform better than the OE unit? If so, I may go that route.
    Yes, but not for your purposes. The reason Matty suggested an aftermarket TMIC is primarily to reduce your pressure drop across the core rather than the charge cooling effect (the bar-and-plate design is less restrictive than tube-and-fin albeit heavier) .
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  6. #20
    Registered User cjm1991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    lol at "glassbox." You can thank the DSM crowd of inexperienced drivers for that moniker.

    If you don't believe me, PM Ray. He's pushing about 340wtq through the "glassbox" 2002 Transmission.
    Just doing little pulls is completely different than what the op is intending, unless Ray goes to the 1/4 very often(I have no clue). Your never going to get a decent time out of the car even with stage 2 if you don't launch it hard, the 02-05 are slow in last half of the track, so you need to really nail your 60'. The early 02 transmission is definitely weak and can't take someone launching it hard on stock power for long, let alone 340wtq. Hitting 2nd hard with a decent clutch that doesn't slip is usually the end at that power if you survive the launch. Just because the 10 bolt in the fbodys has seen 10 second passes on some peoples cars doesn't make it a good read end, in fact its a sh!t rear end that breaks all the time on sticky tires. Some are just lucky. Ray might have one of the few stronger ones out there.
    Chris
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  7. #21
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjm1991
    Just doing little pulls is completely different than what the op is intending, unless Ray goes to the 1/4 very often(I have no clue). Your never going to get a decent time out of the car even with stage 2 if you don't launch it hard, the 02-05 are slow in last half of the track, so you need to really nail your 60'. The early 02 transmission is definitely weak and can't take someone launching it hard on stock power for long, let alone 340wtq. Hitting 2nd hard with a decent clutch that doesn't slip is usually the end at that power if you survive the launch. Just because the 10 bolt in the fbodys has seen 10 second passes on some peoples cars doesn't make it a good read end, in fact its a sh!t rear end that breaks all the time on sticky tires. Some are just lucky. Ray might have one of the few stronger ones out there.
    The OP has a 4EAT transmission, which isn't plagued with the "glass" reputation.

    Quote Originally Posted by zax
    Yes, but not for your purposes. The reason Matty suggested an aftermarket TMIC is primarily to reduce your pressure drop across the core rather than the charge cooling effect (the bar-and-plate design is less restrictive than tube-and-fin albeit heavier).
    It's a two-tiered recommendation
    1) The reduced pressure drop will increase spool and make transient response better
    2) The better cooling will allow you to run more boost/timing and leaner AFRs with the same margin of safety as an equivalent tune with the OE TMIC.

    Basically, from a safety margin, this is "free" power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexmartynyuk
    At one time I was set up for stage 2 with the stock catback, made 220whp in airboy @ 19psi. I then got a 3in catback and retuned it and was at 240whp in airboy at 19psi. I don't know how much of a difference it will make between a 2.5in catback and a 3in. Im sure it will be very little if you are going to use the cobb ots map.
    Same section of road? Same direction? Same atmospheric/weather conditions?

    A 2.5" catback will still be an improvement over OE (2.25").
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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  8. #22
    Registered User cjm1991's Avatar
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    I see, how much torque can the 02 autos handle without modification?
    Chris
    02 Camaro z28 T-Tops, m6 49k miles
    Bolt ons and tuned - 349rwhp/362rwtq
    02 Ws6 T-Top,m6 80k miles
    Bolt ons/Cam/tune - 436rwhp/424rwtq

  9. #23
    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    The OP has a 4EAT transmission, which isn't plagued with the "glass" reputation.
    It also cannot effectively "launch" unless a high-stall torque converter is installed.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    It's a two-tiered recommendation
    1) The reduced pressure drop will increase spool and make transient response better
    2) The better cooling will allow you to run more boost/timing and leaner AFRs with the same margin of safety as an equivalent tune with the OE TMIC.

    Basically, from a safety margin, this is "free" power.
    I acknowledge this. However, the OP asked about an STi intercooler. Since the pressure drop is nearly 2 PSI, which is effectively the same as the OEM TMIC, there will be no benefit for (1). He will achieve better cooling from the 20% larger core, but I don't see this as an effective modification for stage 2.
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  10. #24
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRidesX View Post
    Yeah the first time I heard that I thought it was a bunch of bull, and then again my tranny is automatic so I didn't think it would be an issue. I'm sure he is running a standard tranny, but yeah I believe it.
    Driving style is everything. I basically don't launch the car, ever, and rarely WOT in first gear. Hopefully this transmission will survive for a while.
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  11. #25
    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjm1991 View Post
    I see, how much torque can the 02 autos handle without modification?
    It's difficult to say. Most autos haven't been modified like the 5MT. Furthermore, without a high-stall TC the auto cannot be launched in the classic sense of the word. There are 4EATs that have been pushed past 400whp. There are also 5MTs that have been pushed past 400whp. The critical difference, however, is that a bad shift can spell doom for the 5MT at those power levels whereas the 4EAT does not suffer from problems related to human involvement. The real benefit for the 4EAT is the 4WD system, which is far more technically advanced than the 5MT and even the DCCD from the 6MT. The 4EAT's 4WD system is the basis for the system used on the Impreza WRC.
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  12. #26
    Registered User WRidesX's Avatar
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    Wow you all have given me a lot to consider. I really appreciate the criticism, seriously, it helps. I will certainly consider a new TMIC (should I install this post or pre tune with Access Port?).

    I'm assuming the maps that come loaded on an Access Port would address and / or solve many of these issues that you all mentioned i.e. back pressure, running rich vs. lean, low end acceleration issues, etc.?
    '02 WRX Bugeye; Midnight Blue / Black Pearl

  13. #27
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRidesX
    Wow you all have given me a lot to consider. I really appreciate the criticism, seriously, it helps. I will certainly consider a new TMIC (should I install this post or pre tune with Access Port?).

    I'm assuming the maps that come loaded on an Access Port would address and / or solve many of these issues that you all mentioned i.e. back pressure, running rich vs. lean, low end acceleration issues, etc.?
    If you're going with a generic base map from Cobb, only do the regular StageII modifications; you'll get little/no benefit from anything else.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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  14. #28
    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    If you're going with a generic base map from Cobb, only do the regular StageII modifications; you'll get little/no benefit from anything else.
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  15. #29
    Registered User WRidesX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    If you're going with a generic base map from Cobb, only do the regular StageII modifications; you'll get little/no benefit from anything else.
    So I hear that a lot of people are happy with Stage 1 for awhile and use it for a bit since it's an improvement over stock, is this true? I'll eventually get to stage 2 but most people say that going stage 1 is enough car to get used to.
    '02 WRX Bugeye; Midnight Blue / Black Pearl

  16. #30
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRidesX
    So I hear that a lot of people are happy with Stage 1 for awhile and use it for a bit since it's an improvement over stock, is this true? I'll eventually get to stage 2 but most people say that going stage 1 is enough car to get used to.
    Everyone is different. My car feels slow, and it's got a little more juice than a S1 2.0L WRX
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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