UTEC vs Reflashing..newbie qn.

[misguided_will]

hey all.

i have a utec delta sitting at home and now finally ready to install.

the tuner has trashed utec saying it's not as good as a reflash. he says the utec is too sensitive to knock and that it has no temp compensation and pulls out too much timing...5-10 when it detects a knock.

What are these fixed maps? Does that mean it's one map for all conditions and so if fuel or temps change, the utec does nothing until it knocks? Does a reflash just have one map that adjusts automatically as fuel, temp etc change?

are the utec maps different to the map selection "i drive" style on the latest subarus?

Features i liked about the utec was it being able to be removed when i sell the car or have a problem. i just remove it and it's fine.

Reflashing means the original is gone and if i was to sell or wanted to get back to stock, i'd have to pay a tuner another wad of cash to do that. not ideal.

I guess i'd like a safe a practical solution. i only drive on weekends and would like to be able to switch to more aggressive maps to suit my mood.

[Donkey]

Engine Management FAQ: Read if you are thinking of buying one! - NASIOC

I'm really to lazy to go super in depth about this as it is not really a quick explanation to truely understand the difference between the two.Tuning the stock ECU is most effective as it gives you acess to the compensation maps (timing,altitude,wastegate duty cycle..) and the ability to disable DTC/CEL's.The stock ECU can also control much larger injectors.The Utec has some features built in like MAP based tuning(high load) and launch control (<which Opensource tuning can now to via the stock ECU by some tricky programing!) maps switching and flat foot shifting.I personally am not a big fan of piggyback ECU's but each has their pro's and cons.

[misguided_will]

hi...my tuner in passing has suggested a emanage ultimate.

below is a blurb i found.

from the below, does the emanage actually do the compensation unlike the utec?

if so, i'll be getting the emanage.


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Map's

* Airflow Output Map
* - Previously labeled “Airflow Adjustment Map” is now “Airflow Output Map”. This can now used to eliminate the factory airflow meter. This is done by directly inputting voltage or frequency in to this map. Anti Engine Stall Feature
* - The 8 adjustment cells are now upgraded to 16 cells, for even finer adjustment. Injection Adjustment Map - Fuel trimming in the previous system was achieved by adjusting the “Airflow Adjustment Map” which could also affect the ignition timing. The improved “Injection Adjustment Map” is used to trim and add fuel directly by controlling the injector signal, therefore it will not affect the ignition timing at all. (However with an internal jumper setting change, the system is still able to trim the fuel by adjusting the airflow signal like the previous unit)
* Acceleration Injection Map
* - Like the “Injection Adjustment Map”, the “Acceleration Injection Map” can trim fuel by controlling the injector signal. This is used if it is necessary to smooth rapid transitions to wide open throttle. Individual Cylinder Injection Adj. & Individual Cylinder Ignition Adj. Maps
* - It is possible to correct uneven combustion between cylinders, by fine tuning each individual cylinder for more advanced tuning. Vehicle Speed Correction Map
* - Inconsistencies due to differences in vehicle speed (difference in load) can be corrected with this map.
* Coolant Temp Correction Map (Must be Selected with Knock Signal 1) - When the ECU Coolant Temp Calibration does not match the e-manage’s tuning, this map is used to tune the system at various temperature ranges. Intake Air Temp Correction Map (Must be Selected with Knock Signal 2)
* - When the ECU Intake Air Temp Calibration does not match the e-manage’s tuning, this map is used to tune the system at various temperature ranges. This map is also be used when eliminating the airflow meter on a vehicle equipped with a hotwire type airflow meter. Rev Limiter Cut
* - For vehicles with a fuel cutting controlled rev limiter, this feature will drive the injectors past the factory rev limiter. *This feature will not work on vehicles with rev limiter controlled by ignition cut. A/F Target Value Map (feedback tuning function)
* - By inputting target Air Fuel values in this map, “e-mange Ultimate” will automatically make corrections to the “Injection Map,” if an A/F meter (*high quality) is connected to the Auxiliary Output signal. This feature can shorten the tuning time. Ignition Adjustment Map
* - The “Ignition Adjustment Map” can accurately advance ignition timing by controlling the crank angle / cam angle signal. Acceleration Ignition Map
* - Ignition timing can also be corrected for a rapid change in the throttle opening rate for a smoother transition into wide open throttle. NVCS Control Map
* - NVCS (Nissan Valve Control System) can be controlled with out the need for NVCS Adapter 1. Analog Output Map
* - This feature can be used to eliminate the factory boost cut function on vehicles that are equipped with both an airflow meter and a pressure sensor (i.e.: FC3S, Subaru). Also, on some vehicles, the factory feedback range can be adjusted by outputting a corrected throttle position signal. Auxiliary Output Map
* - The fixed 4x4 map on the previous unit is now a fully adjustable 16x16 map. Set your own "ON" and "OFF" conditions. Idle Stabilization Map
- If the factory idle control valve is a solenoid type valve, this map can vary the valve’s duration to adjust the injection rate. This is used when eliminating the airflow meter.

[Donkey]

I would stick with Subaru specific engine management(Ecutek,Utec,Cobb AP).You still cannot do anything with OBDII with a piggyback.At least with Ecutek or Cobb you can take care of controlling OBDII DTC/CEL's.I don't know of anyone using an Emanage except for N/A Subies(2.5 RS) running turbo kits.

[testes1010]

Originally Posted by misguided_will

hi...my tuner in passing has suggested a emanage ultimate.

your tuner is definitely NOT a Subaru tuner if he's recommending a Emanage.

[testes1010]

Originally Posted by misguided_will

hey all.

i have a utec delta sitting at home and now finally ready to install.

the tuner has trashed utec saying it's not as good as a reflash. he says the utec is too sensitive to knock and that it has no temp compensation and pulls out too much timing...5-10 when it detects a knock.

All the UTEC knock variables(how many degrees, how long etc) are user-changeable as well as the knock sensitivity(which reflashes can't do).

Your tuner seems to know nothing about the UTEC. I do agree that reflashes are better BUT not for any of the false reasons he mentioned. Overall drivability will be better with a reflash versus a UTEC or other piggyback. The piggy will fight the ECU for fuel control during Closed loop fueling.