Careless Driving Citation in Royersford
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This is a discussion on Careless Driving Citation in Royersford within the Tri-State forums, part of the Regional Discussion category; I was traveling down Ridge Pike, in the right lane, from my apartment towards Target. I was starting to pass ...

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    Vez
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    Careless Driving Citation in Royersford

    I was traveling down Ridge Pike, in the right lane, from my apartment towards Target. I was starting to pass the Acme complex when a silver SUV pulled out in front of me. I slammed on the breaks; it seemed like he didn't even see me. The SUV made a right turn from the complex directly into the far lane, which as far as I know is illegal, and no turn signal was used. That's 2 violations. I start to accelerate and as I approached the SUV, it swerved into my lane and then swerved back into the far lane which had now turned into a middle lane. That's 2 lane changes without a turn signal as well as crossing a solid white line twice. That's 4 more violations and counting the previous 2, that makes 6. I'm guessing that since the far lane quickly became 2 lanes, a turning lane and a regular lane, he thought he was in a turning lane, swerved into mine, and then immediately swerved back when he realized the only turning lane was the one that formed to his left. When the SUV did this, I had to hit my breaks again. This time, I laid on my horn and threw up my hands. I waited about 5-10 seconds to make sure there wasn't any more erratic movement and began to once again accelerate. While accelerating to speed, the SUV started to slow down until I came along side of it. I looked over and yelled to the driver, “Learn how to drive, *******.” I could see him start yelling back but couldn’t hear what was being said. I couldn’t believe that a person who drives like this was yelling at ME so I gave him the finger as I kept driving. This appeared to infuriate the driver. As I accelerated away, he then sped up and pulled up along side of me, matching my speed to yell more. I believe this is harrassment making the violation total now 7. I couldn’t believe HE was yelling when I was the one whom was endangered by HIS driving. I then motioned for him to turn into the next road, the side access road to Target, and put on my turn signal as I slowed down to allow the SUV to pull in front of me. I wanted to know what he had to say and I wanted to tell him what I thought of his driving. This time, he put his turn signal on and moved in front of me, then made the turn. As I followed, he pulled over to the side of the first turn (right) entering the Target complex and I pulled in behind him.

    I was on my way to give an anti-assault and anti-rape seminar/class to a coworker and his family so I looked like a thug. I had a black skull cap on, sunglasses, my black jacket and gloves and black warm-up pants. I got out of my car and he got out of his. I walked to the front of my car and stopped. Once out of the vehicles, I yelled, “What’s you’re ******* problem? Why the **** did you cut me off and then swerve at me?” He walked up to me and got in my face. At this point, legally, I could have construed that as threatening movement and defended myself, but I remained calm. I thought that if he wanted to hit me, he was welcome to, but it most likely wouldn't turn out well for him. I think he expected me to back down, but I wasn't going anywhere; I was in the right and I knew it and I wasn't about to be intimidated either. He replied, “*** you. Do you see that?! Do you see that?!” At this time he pointed to his license plate which was a “fraternal order of the police” plate. “You know what that means?! Do you know what that means?!” I said, “I don’t give a *** even if you were a cop, it doesn’t mean you get to break the law and it doesn’t automatically make you right.” “Oh yeah? We’ll see about that when you get a citation in the mail.” I said, “A citation! For what?!! YOU’RE the one who cut ME off!” “For careless driving that’s what.” I said, “**** you, give me the citation. You’re the one that almost caused an accident.” I know…very stupid choice of words, but he was in plain clothes and like I said, never said his name nor identified himself in any respect so I STILl don't know if he was a real cop. I saw no badge and he never even said he was a cop. I can borrow my friend's car and make that same claim. He could have been making the whole thing up. All he did was point to the plate and threaten me with a ticket. He said, “**** you, get back in your car.” I replied, “Go **** yourself.” During the exchange of words, the woman he was with got out of the SUV, walked to the back of my car and wrote down my license plate number, walked back to the other vehicle and got inside. Once our exchange ended, we each got in our vehicles and he drove in once direction and I drove off in the other. The time was now 5:17 PM. The whole yelling thing probably lasted about 60 seconds or less from the time we each got out of the cars to when we got back in. As soon as I got home, about 3.5 hours later, I typed this up.

    I never left the cruising lane. I wasn't speeding or driving aggressively in any manner. He stayed in the passing lane the whole time until we pulled over into that side road. From the time he pulled out to when we made the turn, it couldn't have been more than a half of a mile. I don’t remember him ever actually stating he was a cop nor was there any proof shown to me besides the plate on the back of the car. I’m guessing that was his wife, but who knows. Say it’s his wife, now it's my word versus his word (assuming he's a real cop) and his “witness”? If I get this fine and take it to court, he's going to have to lie about everything and completely fabricate something that I did wrong. If he lies and she agrees, I'm sure I'll lose this one. Even if she doesn't testify, it'll be my word versus the lies of a cop. Again, I doubt I will win that.

    I try not to make broad statements such as, "I hate cops." However, when the vast majority of my interactions with cops have been bad, both when they stop me AND when I turn to them for help, it's really hard not to make that generalization.
    Last edited by Vez; 02-26-2009 at 11:23 AM.
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    Administrator Trainrex's Avatar
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    While you may have been right in the beginning, you quickly made yourself wrong by instigating an encounter outside of your vehicle. You really put yourself in danger by doing this. Keep in mind, you just never know who you're dealing with.

    I also can't help but think you are looking at this through rose colored glasses.

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    I'll concur with TR.

    By more or less instigating a physical encounter you are also at fault in the situation.

    Who knows if the guy is a police officer or not....odds are nothing will come of it.

    Idiots and road rage is something we all deal with. Next time I'd recommend going about your day and avoiding the person further on the highway. I've been pretty ticked at some of the stupid things I've seen but it's not worth going to jail over, getting hurt over, or even getting stabbed over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex View Post
    While you may have been right in the beginning, you quickly made yourself wrong by instigating an encounter outside of your vehicle. You really put yourself in danger by doing this. Keep in mind, you just never know who you're dealing with.
    +81094

    seriously, what were YOU thinking by getting out of your car? havent you ever heard of those road rage stories where people pull out guns and knives and end up killing people?

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    Yeah I have been pissed at the way people drive before but I never actually got out and started a confrontation with someone...one time I was stopped at a light and someone ran into me...just a slight bump..no damge...but I got out of my car and I was about to go back and chew some a** and it was a little old lady..I felt like such an a** lol...so I just made sure there was no real damage and got back in my car......

    I don't really know what kind of advice to give in your situation...when I lived out in cali I had someone try to make me pull over one time...I flicked him off and just sped up...that was a few years ago though...you never know what might happen if you get into a heated arguement with someone on the side of the road...sorry I have no real advice.

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    Wow Vez...that is a ****ty situation. I've seen where "cops" have instigated issues like that many a time. However its usually a losing situation because those are the cops who are on a power trip. Still nobody is to say he is a cop cause does an FOP license plate actually mean you are a cop? Or is it just another one of those "support the FOP" where you donate X amount of money, then get a license plate in return....I dunno.

    Either way...I don't see how something like that can hold up anyway. You didn't get pulled over, you pulled him over haha. Just start keeping a video/microphone system in your car and you will win everything...
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    I know i have a bit of road rage but it never goes anywhere...... becarefull out their buddy........................

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    Vez
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    I'll be the first to admit that getting out of my car to argue with someone is very dangerous and could have easily been avoided. There was no instigation of a physical confrontation, with the possible exception of his approach to me...just yelling. Getting out of my car is just that, nothing more. If I raised my hands, moved aggressively towards him, or did some wild movement in his direction or the direction of his vehicle, then that would construe instigation. I'm not saying that makes getting out of my vehicle to yell at somone safe or socially acceptable, but my actions were legal never the less. I was well aware of the physical risks involved, (him pulling a gun, knife, etc.) and I was okay with that. I don't expect anyone to agree with me on this part, but it was a personal choice and one I was willing to make. I acknowledge I am alone in this sentiment.

    I don't really see how I'm seeing/saw this through rose colored glasses... If anything, I'm jaded towards all of law enforcement.

    I had planned to record conversations with cops using my PPC, but frankly, I didn't remember to do that this time. :P He obviously didn't like that I laid on my horn and then on top of that, gave him the finger. Wheter he's a cop or not, I'm sure it's one of those, "How dare somone flip me off!" If he is a cop, he sure didn't have any professionalism in this situation.

    My point in all of this is I didn't break any laws, but he broke several. Assault is verbal, and he was as much at fault for the verbal argument as I, if what was said can be classified as assault. Despite his wrong-doings, and despite that I was in no way carelessly driving, it is within his ability to still send me the citation. I'll take that to court, too. Unfortunately, that will be a losing battle. If it does go down like that, it will validate that they can operate above the law and sufer no penalty. I know this info doesn't do anyone any good and we already knew that some cops do this, but I wanted to share.
    Last edited by Vez; 02-26-2009 at 03:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vez View Post
    I don't really see how I'm seeing/saw this through rose colored glasses... If anything, I'm jaded towards all of law enforcement.
    I meant that IMO, you are looking at your driving actions through rose colored glasses. While the other person was at fault, he enraged you enough to try multiple times to pull up next to him, yell, use hand gestures, and even pull him over for a confrontation. From my own experience, when I'm that upset, I'm not exactly driving defensive. Normally road rage will cause you to drive quite aggressively, or "Carelessly". When you are dissecting an aggravated incident between two people and you can only see the other person at fault, you are looking through rose colored glasses. I wasn't there, so I can only go by your description, but from what you're telling us, you made an easy situation difficult, and went from being right to wrong. You posted this for either sympathy or opinions. I'm simply offering the latter.
    Last edited by Trainrex; 02-27-2009 at 06:34 AM.

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    Watch it out there, Vez. That could have been some scumdog rolling to Pottstown from North Philly to sell rock (very common along 422 anymore) and they really don't care if they're in the wrong.

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    Vez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex View Post
    I meant that IMO, you are looking at your driving actions through rose colored glasses. While the other person was at fault, he enraged you enough to try multiple times to pull up next to him, yell, use hand gestures, and even pull him over for a confrontation. From my own experience, when I'm that upset, I'm not exactly driving defensive. Normally road rage will cause you to drive quite aggressively, or "Carelessly". When you are dissecting an aggravated incident between two people and you can only see the other person at fault, you are looking through rose colored glasses. I wasn't there, so I can only go by your description, but from what you're telling us, you made an easy situation difficult, and went from being right to wrong. You posted this for either sympathy or opinions. I'm simply offering the latter.
    I posted for opinions, yes, and I welcome yours. I try and make sure I disclose as much as possible so opinions are based on facts but it seems I have poorly conveyed the details and left a couple small things out, which is my fault. So, I would like to clarify.

    I didn't intentionally drive up next to him to start anything. The first time I was next to him was when I was accelerating after he swerved into my lane (after my pause). We were approaching the traffic light which was red but changed to green. Since he was in front of me, he had started slowing down for the light. The light turned green before I reached the intersection and as I accelerated passed him I through up my hands and "yelled" at him but it was for show to convey to him my displeasure, not because I was actually mad at this point. The actions that I used were to convey my feelings towards his driving, to convey my displeasure, but at this point no anger was involved. I didn't pull along side of him, I did it as I passed. At this point, I wasn't enraged or angry, in fact, I was pretty calm. It was after he pulled along side me to yell that I got angry but that was immediately followed by us pulling over. This encompassed me slowing down, putting on my turn signal, and pointing to the road. So, driving wise, I really didn't do anything wrong or even questionable. If I did do something questionable, I'd admit it. I'm not saying I have never handled these situations with anger,because I have, but that was in the past. I didn't let this guy get me until he pressed the issue. It was then that I became angered.
    Last edited by Vez; 02-27-2009 at 07:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vez View Post
    I posted for opinions, yes, and I welcome yours. I may have painted the picture incorrectly and left a couple small details out based on your post. I didn't intentionally drive up next to start anything. The first time I was next to him was when I accelerated after he swerved into my lane (after my pause). We were now approaching the traffic light which was red but changed to green. The light turned green before reaching the intersection and as I accelerated passed him I through up my hands and "yelled" at him but it was for show to convey to him my displeasure, not because I was mad. I didn't pull along side of him, I did it as I passed. At this point, I wasn't enraged or angry, in fact, I was pretty calm. After that, he pulled along side me to yell. It was at this point that I got angry and that was immediately followed by us pulling over. So, driving wise, I really didn't do anything wrong or even questionable. I'd admit it if I did.
    Ahh... I misunderstood then. I was under the impression that you repeatedly attempted to get along side of him with the intention of yelling and using hand gestures. I have done these things in the past, and they did require some aggressive driving to pull them off. If that's the case, I would assume he was just threatening you with a citation out of anger. Odds are nothing will come of it.

    I know you aren't exactly a spring chicken, but I'll offer my advice anyway. The confrontations from screaming and using hand gestures towards other drivers just aren't worth it. I used to constantly do this, but have cooled off since and I just let it slide now. It's too dangerous in todays world, and my energy is better spent elsewhere.

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    I appreciate the advice and I agree. In the past, I have done some very bad things when it comes to these situations in terms of agressive driving, following people, etc. and have in recent times made a concerted effort not to have this road rage. I agree that my energies are best spent elsewhere and that nothing good can come of pursuing situations like these. I still make mistakes, as I did by getting out of the car to yell at him. I'm still working on getting past that as well.

    Not a spring chicken!!! Nonsense! You're only as old as the person you're feeling!
    Last edited by Vez; 02-27-2009 at 09:13 AM. Reason: still can't spell to save my life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vez View Post

    Not a spring chicken!!! Nonsense! You're only as old as the person you're feeling!
    No wonder Brian always claims he feels like a 12 year old boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex View Post
    No wonder Brian always claims he feels like a 12 year old boy.
    I see what you did there.
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