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This is a discussion on Change To Syn Gear Oil Now! within the Transmission & AWD forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Interesting that two of the most "promising" MT lubes are GL-4 rated: GM Synchromesh and Redline MT-90 ... What does ...

  1. #121
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    Interesting that two of the most "promising" MT lubes are GL-4 rated: GM Synchromesh and Redline MT-90 ...

    What does this mean ....

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  3. #122
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    btw, folks, i "topped off" my MT fluid with a few OUNCES of synchromesh fluid and it made a difference. i didn't have much of a problem but the occasional clatter going into 1st on a roll. now i've been experiencing a little faster mesh upshifting, and 1st gear has been quiet.

    in other words, you may be able to get by with a blend instead of going whole hog. this may assuage some fears about gl4 vs gl5 and lubrication.

    the rest of the fluid is OEM at this point.

    jm2c and another data point,
    ken gilbert

  4. #123
    Registered User Dragon-X's Avatar
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    Tried the mobil 1 synthetic, Transmission was way smooth, but I got a grind when shifting from 3rd to 4th (driving hard). Changed that out and put Redline MT 90 and it is just as good plus no grind. It even goes into 1st better. This is the cheapest place I found for it ttp://www.pitstopusa.com/REDLINEGEAROILATF.asp And that is cheaper then Mobil 1
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  5. #124
    Registered User whitefish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bdoug
    Yeah, I can't normally downshift into 2nd without a double clutch. Once and a while, maybe 20% of the time, it will go into 2nd without double clutching. However, most of the time it feels like the 2nd gear gate isn't even there.
    You do realize this is probaly a problem W/ your tranny. and no oil will fix it.
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  6. #125
    Registered User Dragon-X's Avatar
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    Oil changes can't fix the problem, but it can help a ton.
    2002 WRX Sedan
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    Tenzo passion 18x7.5
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  7. #126
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    difference between redline MT-90 and GM Synchromesh?

    Can anyone tell me the difference between redline MT-90 and GM Synchromesh?

  8. #127
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    Hey don't know if you guys know this but I'll put it out there. I have heard complaints of people not being able to engage 1st gear when you are rolling at slow speeds. I found out how to do it. This is the scenario. You are in slow moving traffic and you are back and forth from 1st and 2nd gear. When you downshift from 2nd and you are rolling you canít engage 1st. What I do is while the clutch is still depressed, give it a little gas and take the rpmís to 1000-1500rpms, just a bump. It will engage 1st with no grinding or roughness.

  9. #128
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    while this is a problem with our tranny, a different lub does help somewhat, especially in warmer climates.
    Blipping the gas is nothing more than a variant of double clutching.
    Be careful full MT90 is not GL5 spec and so the differential ring and pinion will suffer. I believe MT90 is only GL4 spec and not inteded for high pressure situations as in differentials. BTW we have 2 of them in the tranny case, the center one and the front one.
    Synchromesh, made by Penzoil and Quaker State, as well as others, and sold by even more companies including GM, is especially made for synchro engagement. The only trannys I know of that can use Synchromesh are ones that call for ATF and do NOT have differentials in them. Examples would include the T56 in F bodies and Corvettes, not the WRX.

  10. #129
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    Trying out MT-90 at the moment in my '03 WRX ... certainly made shifting faster ... which is what I was looking for since I'm going to drag race my WRX. MTM-90 is a 75/90 high pressure oil with added friciton modifiers ... but yes, it is not GL-5. Syncromesh is GL"S" ... special ... using their own specs.

    blipping the gas with the clutch in does nothing ... you need to go to neutral, clutch out ... blip ... clutch in ... shift.

  11. #130
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    Blipping the gas (aka rev-matching) is a high performance driving technique while double clutching involves slipping the clutch (not a good thing afa the clutch goes, imho). Heel-toe or left-foot braking are both designed to allow rev-matching during downshift/turn-in.
    Just wanted to offer a possible clarification.
    -B

  12. #131
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    blipping the gas during a down shift, as in heel and toe, makes the weight transfer much smoother in taking turns. It does make the downshift less traumatic on the suspension, but does nothing for the synchros. Double clutching does both, match revs and saving synchros.
    As for full MT90, I'm not convinced that it's the best thing for the diffs. If I were you I would change it more often if using MT90 alone, so as to combat oil break down.

  13. #132
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    I put MT-90 in for this drag race ... which I'm doing in order to get some official times and speeds ... so that I can approximate my modied HP. I might switch it right after this race ... I don't think a week on this oil is going to hurt. :-) If I was totally after protecting my gearbox and clutch ... would I even be drag racing? :-) I'm not out to protect my car for maximum life ... I'm out to use it as a fun car. People that AutoX, drag race, Rallye or get track time with their WRX are enjoying themselves ... not seeing how long can I make my car last. If the clutch goes, I get a lighter stronger clutch ... if the gearbox goes, I have an excuse to get a 6 speed. If I want to have more money available for vacations, stero gear or whatever else people like to spend their disposable income on ... then I stop moding and enjoying my WRX in a highperformance mode ...



    Since I'm still learning about these things ... how does blipping the throttle with the clutch IN help down shifts. I thought that blipping the throttle with the clutch OUT brings the engine and gear speeds up ... so you can match them. With the clutch in .... only engine speed goes up?

  14. #133
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    I understand your position and actually agree.
    Simply trying to avoid any confusion for those readers who think that there is on fix for all situations.

    Now for your question.
    Blipping the throttle with the clutch depressed, as in heel and toe, simply matches the revs back up on the engine side and allows a matched, or closely matched, RPM for the next lower gear. This allows the downshift ot occur in a smoother fashion and does not upset the momentum of the car and hence cause the suspension to load and unload front to rear. You actually want to blip the throttle higher than the RPMs you need so that the next lower gear "catches" the RPMs on the way down, it's smoother yet this way.
    Double clutching involves stepping on the brake, declutching, shifting into neutral, getting of of the clutch pedal, blipping the throtle (this not only matches the rpms to the next lower gear, but it also brings up the input shaft speed hence helping/saving the synchros), depressing the clutch pedal and then engaging the lower gear. One extra clutch engagement/disengagement is involved. You can find this thread elesewhere in a forum search.
    You may opt not to double clutch, as many other do not, and make your life easier.
    From many years of road course driving, heel and toe keeps clutch wear to an absolute minimum and synchro wear tolerable. 3.5 years of heeling and toing only caused my tranny rebuilder to state, "this is the best tranny I have seen yet". Of course he is used to seeing trannys that are quarter miled and that type of driving destroys everything in the drivetrain in a much shorter period of time.

  15. #134
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    So any updates?
    Seems like a lot of people are favoring the Redline.

    I am thinking of using the Redline MT-90 for the trans......can you use the same for the rear diff?

  16. #135
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    Here is an interesting email i found over at the Cobb Message Board. The guy emailed Redline asking about the MT-90:


    Well the MT90 isn't a GL5 - it's a GL4, so in other words, it's not recommended by Subaru.

    Below is an email I received from Redline:

    (from me)
    Hi, just had a question re: your MT-90.

    Does it meet GL-5 requirements? I'm looking for a tranny oil with some friction to it to help improve the synchros in my 2002 Subaru WRX. I'm not as worried about bearing life. Subaru requires a GL5 rated oil. Or possibly another product you'd recommend? It's a mostly street driven daily driver with a 5 speed manual. Aggressive driving with some autoX and open track days planned.

    Thanks in advance,
    Andy

    (Redline's response)
    Andy,

    The MT-90 is a GL-4. In your WRX transaxle I would recommend the 75W90NS (note from me: No Slip recommended for friction in the tranny) and the 75W90 in the rear differential. These are GL-5 gear lubes and would be well suited to your mix of street and track use.

    Regards, Dave
    Red Line Oil

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