Clutch + LWF VERY soon
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This is a discussion on Clutch + LWF VERY soon within the Transmission & AWD forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Okay, I'm postin' up a question for you folks. My clutch is about dead. Unfortunately, I'm about to drive 2,000 ...

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    Clutch + LWF VERY soon

    Okay, I'm postin' up a question for you folks. My clutch is about dead. Unfortunately, I'm about to drive 2,000 (mostly highway, of course) miles and gain 20% power for 1500 of those miles when I go to Oklahoma from Denver. Needless to say, I'll be hard pressed to have ANY clutch left on the 15th. Luckily, I've learned how to shift without a clutch, but still. I'll be ordering my new clutch with my paycheck on the 13th or so, and I'm trying to choose between the following:


    Exedy Stage 2 Cerametallic, looks to be rated for 326ft/lbs of torque. Roughly $520. Option 1

    ACT "street" disc setup, rated at 420ft/lbs. Roughly $690. Option 2

    I know beyond a doubt (tax return) that before the life of this clutch is through, I'll have an upgraded turbo/uppipe/injectors/pump and the associated tune, with my power target being 370 - 390 safe HP, which probably means at the crank. My bigegst question is whether I should go with the slightly cheaper, still high performance Exeddy, or the innitially more expensive, potentially better for my application, ACT clutch, and why. I almost think the Exedy would be better because my target is slightly above its rating; this would force it to slip rather than snap my transmission into tiny pieces if I accidentally dropped the clutch a little too hard, I believe.


    My other question is, when I get the clutch I also want a lightweight flywheel; ACT and Exeddy both make them, and they are 10/12/14 lbs respectively, all within $20 of eachother. What weight would be best for streetable applications while still contributing to the performance itch scratching? Also, this WILL be dragged semi-monthly. Not often, but every now and then. Much more often it will be torture tested with mountain driving.

    Any thoughts are welcome, and I'll answer whatever is asked.

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    WRX or STI?

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    2006 WRX with a pretty flexible power target. Fun and competitive at the racetrack, and more than enough for the street, are my true goals!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FOOBAR View Post
    2006 WRX with a pretty flexible power target. Fun and competitive at the racetrack, and more than enough for the street, are my true goals!
    It will be incredibly unreliable with power and that 5 speed. You may want to look into getting a stonger gear set if you plan on racing. Especially drag racing. Think that over and get back with me.

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    I don't intend to drag much, I'd like to use the strip more as a baseline evaluator for improvements than anything else. One or two runs on a test and tune night every couple months, more or less. I do, however, intend to take it on runs up around the front range a bit west of Denver, lots of fun but speeds don't really get that high, its alot more taxing on suspension / clutch / brakes.

    I decided a while back that if I ever broke something inside the engine then it wouldn't be a DD anymore, and I'd go balls to the wall with it, but for now it is indeed my DD and I don't want anything that will turn it into a monster anytime soon. The turbo and whatnot, for example, I really don't know which I want, but I don't want a giant turbo-diesel sized turbo. Fast-spooling like stock, but bigger for a bit higher power levels and I'd probably be good. I list injectors/etc bc I assume no matter the upgrade, you have to do those as well. I would think that 370ish horsepower would be absolutely plenty for my tastes, so aim high and then hit your mark.

    As far as which clutch and stuff, I just don't want to purchase something else down the road that I could just get now. I don't want to go into power levels that will destroy either reliability or driveability, but minor things and even pretty moderate ones aren't too big of a deal (I'll be changing the clutch with my shop-running buddy, for instance); I do 99% of my own work and when I go to Oklahoma in a few years, I want to have learned to tune by then. While this is my DD, its not the only car we have and I'm willing to play with it a bit more than I would if it were my sole transportation.

    Per your recommendation of looking into a stronger gear set, quick searches yielded excellent results. This one about "best gears" and here I found the master aprts lsit for a 6-speed swap into a WRX. Following that, Ebay yielded a few results that put it into price-perspective. In all honesty, I'd rather invest in my suspension (tien superstreet coil overs if anything) and do that 6-spd swap and then someday maybe put more power into it. I love 6MTs and sorely miss the ones I've been able to drive. I have always wanted to get into AutoX and I already have plenty of power for the time being, and the foreseeable future. Driver mod is my biggest hindrance right now.

    Does that make sense at all?

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    If you're looking for a DD, keep it off the track. Just my .02. If you get a clutch that has a lot of clamping power, you have potential to shatter your gears pretty easily. Especially if you plan on shifting hard. Trust me, these cars aren't good for tracking/abuse unless you put quite a bit of money into making the driveline more robust.

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    Makes sense. In that case it would make more sense for an organic rather than cerametallic simply to let it slip when it needs to do so. So nothing rated much higher than what the OEM clutch was, I would think, which would certainly save me a few bucks. I've never bothered with a high performance clutch in anything before, so I don't really have a point of reference, but is that something that really changes the feel of the car, or is it like an intake, and totally unneeded until obscene amounts of power that can't be handled by "normal" clutches?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FOOBAR View Post
    Makes sense. In that case it would make more sense for an organic rather than cerametallic simply to let it slip when it needs to do so. So nothing rated much higher than what the OEM clutch was, I would think, which would certainly save me a few bucks. I've never bothered with a high performance clutch in anything before, so I don't really have a point of reference, but is that something that really changes the feel of the car, or is it like an intake, and totally unneeded until obscene amounts of power that can't be handled by "normal" clutches?
    You need to figure out what your power goals are before you start looking into what clutch you should get.

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    Well, my power goals are an end product of 350-370 at the wheels, assuming its safe and not engine-destroying. I really don't want to build up a bulletproof engine just to zoom around. If I do ever race, it won't be a normal thing or an every week thing.

    Is there a... calculator, or pseudo-guide that you know of for what a given power level feels like? I kinda feel like I'm throwing numbers out there randomly.

    /me rushes off to Google various phrases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FOOBAR View Post
    Well, my power goals are an end product of 350-370 at the wheels, assuming its safe and not engine-destroying. I really don't want to build up a bulletproof engine just to zoom around. If I do ever race, it won't be a normal thing or an every week thing.

    Is there a... calculator, or pseudo-guide that you know of for what a given power level feels like? I kinda feel like I'm throwing numbers out there randomly.

    /me rushes off to Google various phrases.
    Anything over 350 and you're driving a ticking time bomb.

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    Whoops, went to edit and found a post. Just read the PSA and through a few pages of this question-answer thread on high-power DD cars.

    I can't seem to properly comprehend what those levels feel like. However, I have driven the new 5.0 mustangs with their gobs of power in RWD configuration, specifically the 2011 models while selling for Ford, and they were plenty fast for my taste. I think that number, 412hp/ 390ft/lbs of torque, has stuck with me since. When you reference 350 as the time bomb threshold, is that at the wheels or crank? If I were to baseline dyno my WRX, is the number spat out the crank or the wheels, or would I have to ask the operator to do it one way or the other?

    Going by the mentioning of RWD vs AWD power delivery I have found, I feel like taking those numbers to 315-225 would surely be both deliverable and similar to the RWD once it locks up.
    Last edited by FOOBAR; 06-26-2013 at 11:50 PM.

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    Alrighty, so I've spent the last couple days, when able to do so, researching various turbos and the information presented with them. I still do not know the magic number, per se, but I think that I would greatly enjoy if not be totally satisfied with the 320hp/tq at the crank range. Ideally, a maximized area "under the curve" and a relatively quick spool-up on the turbo. Having been reading tons and tons of stuff, I think there are a few turbos that stand out from others, but am still absolutely nowhere near picking one.

    At the risk of repeating myself, I have also been considering the entire timeline of my vehicle and what I would like to have done to it, and here that is:

    1) Clutch, bc mine is dead.
    2) Timing belt and associated items
    3) Suspension stuff, like cowl braces and a strut tower brace
    4) More suspension things, namely bushings, tranny mounts, engine mounts, etc. Firming up in general.
    5) Coilovers, as I'm running on factory suspension and in this case, go big or go home. Target: canyon carving potential.
    6) Any other maintenance that needs to happen at this point.
    7) The rest of my power mods, whatever I decide those will be.

    I believe I have decided on the Exedy Stage 2, as that has a torque rating of 326 lb/ft. No need for anything higher. I am now searching for other clutch combinations that also have that rough number of torque rating, so that I can further isolate to find the best clutch I can for my application.

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    You'd be perfectly fine with a Stage 2 protune setup...that would get you close to 320 crank. At most a VF39/VF43 or 16g type turbo.

    However, I'd say don't bother with the Stage 2 clutch...you'd probably be fine with the Exedy OEM. At any power levels over stock on the stock 5spd, you'd want the clutch to go out before the transmission...think about that.
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    If stage 2 will put me at my recently arrived at goals, then I'll need to rethink them.

    My setup:
    TurboXS Downpipe
    Unknown Brand 3" SS exhaust the rest of the way
    TurboXS TMIC (this giant monster of an IC)
    TurboSmart Dual-port BOV
    Tune of unknown validity, though it was placed there via AP

    This sounds like Stage 3 minus an uppipe. If so, then my list gets changed around out of necessity. Until such time, I will probably run the clutch that is closest to stock gripping power, which is also going to save me a couple hundred bucks, nicely. I will also run a lightened flywheel, most likely the heaviest of the lightweight ones. Let it rev a wee bit freer.

    Here is my revised list, if that sounds like I think it sounds.
    1) Clutch, bc mine is dead.
    2) Timing belt and associated items
    3) Gauges setup to monitor functions and datalog when necesary
    4) Have a professional, high quality tune put on so that I know exactly what is going on down there.
    5) Suspension stuff, like cowl braces and a strut tower brace
    6) More suspension things, namely bushings, tranny mounts, engine mounts, etc. Firming up in general.
    7) Coilovers, as I'm running on factory suspension and in this case, go big or go home. Target: canyon carving potential.
    8) Any other maintenance that needs to happen at this point.
    9) Save up for as close to an entire kit as I can find for a 6MT swap, like the numerous ones on EBay
    10) The rest of my power mods, whatever I decide those will be, with an accompanying tune.

    So long as I get to 8, I will feel like I have a phenomenal car. 9 and 10 are icing on the cake...made of money.

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